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D&D 5E Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the various version can merge into one single form.

Takhisis is the five-headed dragon god of evil from the Dragonlance setting. Paladine is the platinum dragon god of good (and also Fizban's alter-ego).

Takhisis.jpg


Additionally, the book will contain psychic gem dragons, with stats for all four age categories of the five varieties (traditionally there are Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, and Topaz), plus Dragonborn characters based on metallic, chromatic, and gem dragons.


 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey


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AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
In older editions, the Ethereal was suggested to basically be the raw material where other planes came from (hence all the demiplanes there, which once included the Shadowfell [Demiplane of Shadow] and Ravenloft [Demiplane of Dread]). This may be a callback to that.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that. IMO, the Elemental Planes work better as the "Building Blocks Worlds" of the Inner Planes. (I kinda like the approach of one of the earlier editions where the Positive and Negative Energy Planes were sorta the 5th and 6th Elemental Planes of the D&D Multiverse, and also enjoy tying it to the Shadowfell and Feywild as being tied to those planes).
 


As the 5e DMG states, gods can have different power levels and even different portfolios in different settings.
I know it says that…but how?

I mean Tiamat/Takhisis don‘t live on Material Plane worlds—she/they live on the Outer Planes!

Greater or Lesser status isn’t relevant to worshippers, because it doesnt effect power of clerics or anything. What it’s relevant to is if two gods personally meet up. The greater power is more powerful.

That’s what it means. So I ask (not you, but the DMG’s claim) how can they have different divine ranks on different worlds, and what does that mean regarding their actual persons in the Outer Planes?

Now I think maybe this First World thing might be an attempt to finally answer that question with its echos thing. Maybe Takhisis is a greater power who lives somewhere on the Outer Planes, the Tiamat known in Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Planescape, and many other worlds is a lesser power on Avernus, and there exist many other versions of Tiamat out there for unknown and unpublished settings.

Regardless, it’s an annoyance with the DMG’s insufficient explanation of divinity.
 




doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Athas has always been part of the greater cosmology. It's just always been cut off and easy to enter but much harder to leave. The Gith there were originally Githyanki from the Astral that got stranded there.

Here is exactly what is said about Eberron. Eberron's elves would not be children of Correlon as he was not involved with Eberron.

wngSMss.png
Like I said upthread. They made a derivative work. Whether the elves they made are technically Corellons offspring is irrelevant, they still only exist because Corellon.
 

Bolares

Hero
Like I said upthread. They made a derivative work. Whether the elves they made are technically Corellons offspring is irrelevant, they still only exist because Corellon.
If Eberron is not a part of the First World, it is also not a part of Corellon's creations. That's how I read it.

We have one book that says Elves in general are Corellon's cration, and now we have two books that specifically mention Eberron as being apart from that. Not only we have more sources saying this, both of them specifically mention Eberron, while Mordenkainen's is broad and general. I for one rack up the Mordenkainen's text as lazy writing that didn't worry about specific settings.
 

If Eberron is not a part of the First World, it is also not a part of Corellon's creations. That's how I read it.

We have one book that says Elves in general are Corellon's cration, and now we have two books that specifically mention Eberron as being apart from that. Not only we have more sources saying this, both of them specifically mention Eberron, while Mordenkainen's is broad and general. I for one rack up the Mordenkainen's text as lazy writing that didn't worry about specific settings.
The thing is, there's no more canon in D&D anymore. It's the wild west now, and every DM is a homesteader. The ideas in Mordenkainen's are just that. If you dont like them (I dont care for it myself) there's no authority forcing anyone to use them.
 

Bolares

Hero
The thing is, there's no more canon in D&D anymore. It's the wild west now, and every DM is a homesteader. The ideas in Mordenkainen's are just that. If you dont like them (I dont care for it myself) there's no authority forcing anyone to use them.
Was there ever someone forcing us to use anything? People give way to much importance to what perkins said about canon...
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
If Eberron is not a part of the First World, it is also not a part of Corellon's creations. That's how I read it.
Not the point. The point is that the progenitors looked at the children of Corellon, and copied them to populate parts of Thelanis. A derivative work. It lessens what the progenitors are in the setting, and makes everything in it secondary to the great wheel.
We have one book that says Elves in general are Corellon's cration, and now we have two books that specifically mention Eberron as being apart from that. Not only we have more sources saying this, both of them specifically mention Eberron, while Mordenkainen's is broad and general. I for one rack up the Mordenkainen's text as lazy writing that didn't worry about specific settings.
Except the Eberron book states that Eberron is part of the great wheel, just a closed off part, and Fizbans states that Eberron is a “second generation” derivative work.
 




dave2008

Legend
Not the point. The point is that the progenitors looked at the children of Corellon, and copied them to populate parts of Thelanis. A derivative work. It lessens what the progenitors are in the setting, and makes everything in it secondary to the great wheel.
Well, mythology tells what comes 2nd often outshines what comes first. Not a bad thing to be 2nd really.
Except the Eberron book states that Eberron is part of the great wheel, just a closed off part, and Fizbans states that Eberron is a “second generation” derivative work.
And neither are correct - that is what is great about it!
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Well, mythology tells what comes 2nd often outshines what comes first. Not a bad thing to be 2nd really.
Which has nothing at all to do with how the change impacts the basic nature of the Eberron cosmology, making it inherently secondary to the Great Wheel.
And neither are correct - that is what is great about it!
The Eberron book is correct when running Eberron. Other books may be optional, though they still very much determine how the community in general views a thing, but the Eberron book is canon when running Eberron. I may not be beholden to canon, but it still exists, and is what new players read when they check out the setting.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Here's the full thing.
DFG9tvw.png

Which worlds do they mention in this section? I'm curious as to which worlds they may be hinting at for the future.

I'll add, I think Dragonlance's stock has gone up, as Fizban's seems pretty comfortable talking about that setting (and even has art for it!)
 

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