Is the Feeblemind spell fair?

[Hypersmurf]

... but it's still a gibbering idiot that can tear apart Volkswagens with it's claws.

Only if it can find one!

-Hyp.

 

[Cheiromancer]

If it was a slay living (also a 5th level spell) they'd be dead, and you couldn't do anything about it short of a resurrection- that's a 7th level spell to reverse it, and the victim would lose a level. A heal is peanuts. As for the save, well, a 10th level wizard has a base Fort Save of +3, and a base Will save of +7; there's your -4 penalty for arcanists.

So as a mage killer spell it is eminently fair. Against other creatures... well, as has been pointed out, you don't need to be smart to fight. Animals, vermins and constructs do just fine. So the spell might neutralize some opponents, but not all.

All things considered I don't see anything wrong with the spell.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Even if your Wizard is hosed, he is not actually dead. Seems comparable in its nastiness to Slay Living and Baleful Polymorph IMO.

 

[Nail]

Help us out, frankthedm. What does "fair" mean in this poll? I'm assuming: "balanced WRT the core rules".

 

[KarinsDad]

Even if your Wizard is hosed, he is not actually dead. Seems comparable in its nastiness to Slay Living and Baleful Polymorph IMO.

Slay Living is Touch.

Baleful Polymorph is Close.

Feeblemind is Medium.

SL kills.

BP for the most part prevents most standard actions (except for Psionic types and Druids with the Natural Shape feat). But, BPed targets can at least think, run away, hide, etc. And, Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment can negate it.

Feeblemind prevents most reasonable standard actions except normal melee fighting. For example, an Int 1 (low animal int) creature should be unable to use complex tools like a crossbow or a bow, so the enfeebled Wizard can fight with a dagger or staff maybe. Beyond that, he is basically a drooling idiot. And, it takes higher level spells to negate.


The -4 to saves is not really a big deal. Mostly what it does is switch the saving throw from a good category for Wizards and Sorcerers to a bad category (like Slay Living and Baleful Polymorph already are).


So, the real issue here is range. Feeblemind is somewhat stronger than Baleful Polymorph as is and it is longer range too.

Sure, the BPed target cannot fight, but it might be able to overcome its own problem, even if its allies get slain. The Feebleminded target is pretty much SOL if his allies cannot assist.


When compared to Slay Living, the issue becomes one of touch attacks. There are defenses against those such as miss chance spells or Death Ward or even the standard difficulty in getting real close to a Wizard or Sorcerer that Feeblemind does not have (e.g. Levitate or Fly will typically prevent it). The real protection against Feeblemind does not occur until 8th level with Mind Blank. Before that, there are few defenses against it except maybe Protection From Evil (which might not really help).


All in all, Feeblemind is a bit potent for 5th level compared to the other basic save or die type spells.

 

[Nail]

BTW, if you used Miracle to get a Feeblemind-like effect, which would the save DC be? As a 5th level spell, or as a 9th level spell?

 

[KarinsDad]

BTW, if you used Miracle to get a Feeblemind-like effect, which would the save DC be? As a 5th level spell, or as a 9th level spell?

Wouldn't duplicating a spell duplicate it in all ways, including spell DC?

I do not see any text in Miracle that indicates that the DC would increase.

 

[Nail]

Although you're duplicating the effects of Feeblemind, you're still casting a 9th level spell. Hence DC 10 + 9 + Wis, etc.

 

[KarinsDad]

Although you're duplicating the effects of Feeblemind, you're still casting a 9th level spell. Hence DC 10 + 9 + Wis, etc.

Opps. Missed the sentence: "A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal, but the save DCs are as for a 9th-level spell."

So, you are correct.

 

[Nail]

Oh...right. It says so right there, doesn't it.........