D&D General Just sweeping dirty dishes under the rug: D&D, Sexism, and the '70s

[Bedrockgames]

I think more civility would be amazing. And I posted before about that. But ... that's not really about the speech.

I would say that we have a lot of tribalism right now. And the structure of communication on the internet (allowing that distance, and often anonymity) also tends to create further issues. Not to mention most of us have gotten burned before by sealioning, etc., so it becomes hard to differentiate good-faith curiosity with trolling. And, of course, social media has realized that negative emotion (especially anger) drives engagement and those sweet, sweet ad dollars.

Oh, in addition .... so many things become flashpoints in stupid battles. Look at the Elon Musk stuff recently. Because of that, words and phrases get caught up in it, so you might be using a word or phrase that is associated with something or other and not even realize it- but the people reading you might believe that you are doing so on purpose.

This is definitely true. And this is an example of how it becomes a speech issue. I agree tribalism is part of the equation but it is tribalism that is very focused on pressuring people to use certain language and agree with certain ideas. Myself I don't really fit into any particular tribe, so I don't feel especially at home in one place or another online. But I also find it helpful to engage with people across the board these days. Part of the problem is people read into what other say, even if they aren't saying that. It is like people look for clusters of data to see which tribe a person fits into and if they check off a handful of boxes, they don't mind dismissing that person outright or writing them of as belonging to an enemy tribe. I had enough of tribalism in highschool, so I have no use for it these days

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think that if you truly value free speech, and I do, then you have to recognize its power. To help, and to harm. And you have to act accordingly. Just as you shouldn't wave a gun around carelessly (I'm Canadian), you should not toss words around carelessly, either.

And to be careful, and caring, with your words, you have to consider the world from other perspectives. Especially from the perspective of those who have less power. Privileged folks have never really had to do this, and could largely get away with it. They could afford to be careless with their words. I am reminded of the conclusion of The Great Gatsby: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy - they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”

I think that freedom of speech, with certain limitations, is everyone's right. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be expected to choose our words carefully. Or be exempt from social consequences when we don't. Most people have always had to fear those social consequences, on top of legal ones, so this is not new and alarming to them.

OMG.

Love the post, but the Gatsby quote? Perfection.

(I think the greatest tragedy of that book is that it is often taught in high schools. Almost no one enjoys books they are forced to read. I remember hating the book when I was forced to read it. I then returned to it in my late 20s and I understood how magical it is.)

 

[Gradine]

Here's the other thing about speech that rarely gets brought up. If you own a platform where speech happens, then your ability to control what speech is and is not allowed on that platform is a part of your own freedom of speech.

Like, if you own a store, choosing what to sell and what not to sell is absolutely an exercise of your freedom of speech.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think that if you truly value free speech, and I do, then you have to recognize its power. To help, and to harm. And you have to act accordingly. Just as you shouldn't wave a gun around carelessly (I'm Canadian), you should not toss words around carelessly, either.

And to be careful, and caring, with your words, you have to consider the world from other perspectives. Especially from the perspective of those who have less power. Privileged folks have never really had to do this, and could largely get away with it. They could afford to be careless with their words. I am reminded of the conclusion of The Great Gatsby: “They were careless people, Tom and Daisy - they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”

I think that freedom of speech, with certain limitations, is everyone's right. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be expected to choose our words carefully. Or be exempt from social consequences when we don't. Most people have always had to fear those social consequences, on top of legal ones, so this is not new and alarming to them.

But words aren’t bullets. Guns stop conversations. Speech starts a conversation. I appreciate the great hats by too but I think what is going on is the opposite. That is a story about elite society and the lengths one must go through to even know how to speak or act among them. And it is about how shielded elites are. If you are prioritizing this stuff and expecting everyone to be as cautious in their language as you, rather than reading their words with charity and attempting to understand the meaning: there is a good chance you are privileged. I value courtesy as well. And I think we can speak against bad ideas when raised. Too often though it seems people are getting called out because they didn’t understand educated society decided this word or that word means something else now, or this word is no longer the preferred word to use. Again if someone has a degree they have a much greater chance of having picked up this etiquette.

 

[Bedrockgames]

(I think the greatest tragedy of that book is that it is often taught in high schools. Almost no one enjoys books they are forced to read. I remember hating the book when I was forced to read it. I then returned to it in my late 20s and I understood how magical it is.)

I am sort of torn on this. The books I was forced to read, while I often didn't appreciate them at the time, and some I ended up hating as a result, I found it did often help a lot when I went back to those authors.

 

[Sword Devil]

On the topic of reading books in high school, forcing kids to read novels is no guarantee they're going to appreciate them of course but I would much rather live in a world where every child has the opportunity to read and discuss classic time-tested literature than the alternative.

Great article btw, I found the essays referenced to be really informative.

 

[mamba]

what I am saying is we should be critical of overeactions, and we should refrain from joining in dogpiles or shaming people.

who decides what constitutes an overreaction?

 

[Autumnal]

I do. I spent a feat on it.

 

[Bedrockgames]

who decides what constitutes an overreaction?

People should use their judgement and common sense. And the key is to not overreact in your response to the overreaction

 

[soviet]

I do. I spent a feat on it.

GM veto over that, pal