Knife of Dreams - SPOILERS!

[iwatt]

I just checked the FAQ. http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/1_dark/1.1_forsaken1/1.1.5_taimandred.html



I think the quote means that Demandred has been using Taim for his schemes.

Also, I think Sermihage uses the phrase as well (lord of Chaos Rule), which ties in with Demandred pulling the strings (Sermihage is allied with Demandred).

I'm wondering how the next book is going to be, myself. After I finished Knife of Dreams, I thought that book twelve is either going to be a 1500 page monstrosity to cram everything in or it's going to be shorter and very anti-climatic. I'm hoping for the 1500 page monstrosity, myself.

Personally, I'm hoping for a book in two volumes.... I don't mind a long series, I did mind CoT not having any significant plot development.


As a side note: Is the killing of shadowspan a function of gateways, or only of deathgates? (and you have to hand it to RJ, his naming of sowrd moves and weaves is pretty cool and evocative )

 

[talinthas]

personally, i love reading the battles between blademasters. Nursemaid Walking Her Dog counters Three Swans Arguing Politics, which leads into A Man Drinks Oosquai And Gets Really Messed Up Before Beating His Children Causing Them To Fight Back, Take Their Mom And Leave The House etc.


But yeah, Rolling Ring of Earth And Fire still brings an evocative memory of that amazing scene at Dumai's Wells, even 10 years later. Probably one of the best battles he's written.

And man, where the light were the wolves in the shaido battle? and why no satisfactory end for sevannah?

 

[Starman]

As a side note: Is the killing of shadowspan a function of gateways, or only of deathgates? (and you have to hand it to RJ, his naming of sowrd moves and weaves is pretty cool and evocative )

I'm sure that the deathgate weave is different from that of gateways, otherwise Rand would have just thought of them as gateways.

But yeah, Rolling Ring of Earth And Fire still brings an evocative memory of that amazing scene at Dumai's Wells, even 10 years later. Probably one of the best battles he's written.

I think that it is easily the best battle RJ has written. I crack open Lord of Chaos from time to time just to read that chapter.

 

[Dragonblade]

Yeah, I love that battle. Especially the visual of the chest they had Rand locked inside just exploding into a million fragments as he finally gets access to the One Power. Then all the Asha'man coming in through the gateways and kicking ass. And of course, Taim commanding the Aes Sedai, "Kneel, or you will be knelt."

Great stuff!

 

[talinthas]

and the whole way he broke their shield by worming a strand of power through the nothingness... god, the last half of that book was fantastic. the pinnacle of jordan. I think dumai's well is why everyone has been so dissapointed with the rest of the books since. They've all just been plot wrap up and talking, and no amazing decisive battles. From Shadow Rising to Lord of Chaos was an amazingly intense stretch of action and plot, and he pretty much emptied the barrel there. One can only hope the Last Battle is worthy.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I think dumai's well is why everyone has been so dissapointed with the rest of the books since. They've all just been plot wrap up and talking, and no amazing decisive battles.

Hrm...you may have something there.

There've been a few fights, but the ones with main characters have been disappointingly brief until KoD. After all, I want to see Rand nuking things, and then going hand-to-hand with his Flame sword. I want to see Mat being the best general EVAR. I want to see Perrin hacking his way through Shaido and Shadowspawn. I don't want to see Rand getting it on with some combination of his girlfriends, or Perrin being browbeaten by Faile.

Brad

 

[Lazybones]

On the other hand, geeking her sends her back to Daddy, who will spin her back out ASAP. It took several books to get the other Forsaken (Forsook?), but presumably the Dark One will want the help at Tarmon Gai'don. Balefiring her out of the Pattern is apparently not an acceptable option, IIRC past books.

I vaguely remember something about that. But my first thought after the Semirhage scene was, "If he Balefires her, he gets his hand back."

I agree with most of the earlier posters in that I thought the Mat chapters were the best, followed (suprisingly, since I disliked her in earlier books) Egwene's. Perhaps because she was out from under Halima's thumb and could exercise her full subtlety and force of will. I guess I am an Elayne hater, though, because her chapters in the last book made me ill (Time for a bath? Eight pages! Getting tea? Five pages!) and in this book I barely slogged through them to get to the better stuff. I think those around her must be getting nervous, because any time she leaves the palace everyone around her ends up getting slaughtered.

Now begins the interminable 14-18 months until the next one...

 

[Ulrik]

I wonder if it is possible to make Tor Books have an editor go over books #8-#10 and edit it down to one book? There's about one book worth (maybe) of plot development in those books, so I think it could be great.

And another thing, is it just me or did nothing happen i CoT? I remember putting down that book thinking that nothing did, and now I can't remember anything about it - and it didn't bother me in the slightest while reading Knife of Dreams... :\

 

[iwatt]

I wonder if it is possible to make Tor Books have an editor go over books #8-#10 and edit it down to one book? There's about one book worth (maybe) of plot development in those books, so I think it could be great.

And another thing, is it just me or did nothing happen i CoT? I remember putting down that book thinking that nothing did, and now I can't remember anything about it - and it didn't bother me in the slightest while reading Knife of Dreams... :\

About the only things that actually happened (and not recaps or repeats) was:

- Logain is a power in his own right, with A'shaman followers
- Elayne has 4 houses with ehr (Dyelin and the 3 kids)
- Egwene is the best Cuendillar maker in the world
- Elayne takes a bath.
- Mat kills a woman.
- Masema is talking to the Seanchan.

 

[Xath]

Elayne takes a bath.

Obviously the most important plot point of the book.

 

[Ulrik]

About the only things that actually happened (and not recaps or repeats) was:

- Logain is a power in his own right, with A'shaman followers
- Elayne has 4 houses with ehr (Dyelin and the 3 kids)
- Egwene is the best Cuendillar maker in the world
- Elayne takes a bath.
- Mat kills a woman.
- Masema is talking to the Seanchan.

That seems right. Fortunately, Knife of Dreams was a huge improvement. Not that it was difficult, but still, it's at least as good as a Crown of Swords.

Hmm, I just started rereading Path of Daggers for the second time (I've read #1-#7 about six or seven times), I guess I really am excited by WoT again!

(Wonder what it would take to make Tor reissue #8-#10 as a single book with under a thousand pages, maybe less? It would make rereading the entire series a pleasure, and not just a pain! The Dead Marshes in LotR was a bore, but Tolkien didn't need ~2500 pages to get through it!

Anybody want to sign a petition?)

 

[Starman]

(Wonder what it would take to make Tor reissue #8-#10 as a single book with under a thousand pages, maybe less? It would make rereading the entire series a pleasure, and not just a pain! The Dead Marshes in LotR was a bore, but Tolkien didn't need ~2500 pages to get through it!

Anybody want to sign a petition?)

Well, uh, considering that Robert Jordan owns all of the rights to the books, I don't think a petition will influence Tor in anyway. I also don't think Jordan will be swayed by a petition. Artists are notoriously protective of their work and I don't think that Jordan would even ever say outloud that he could have trimmed the series down.

If you don't want to reread them, you're just going to have to skip them or read chapter summaries.

 

[iwatt]

If you don't want to reread them, you're just going to have to skip them or read chapter summaries.

Reading everything in one go makes reading books 8-10 much more entertaining. (I just did it ).

Books 1-6 are awesome.

Book 7 is pretty good, except that I fell the ending is kind of forced

Book 8 rambles and doesn't have a good ending.

Book 9 rambles a lot more, but finishes very strong.

Book 10 ...... enough said :\

Book 11 ..... Awesome, except that some things feel a bit rushed, but that's probably the fault of Jordan extending them too much (Faile kidnapping, I'm looking at you )


Now the truth is, I don't think he can really finish the series in one last book. Also, since 13 is just to powerful a number, I'm thinking Jordan will get another book out of the series.

 

[Starman]

Oh, I'm not near as big a critic of the last half of the series as some people. While the first six books are definitely stronger than the last five, only book ten was a big disappointment to me.

I, too, have been wondering if he really can finish the series in one more book. It seems like there's still too much that needs to happen. I'm going to be upset if the Last Battle is as rushed as parts of Knife of Dreams. However, with Jordan now working on the next book, A Memory of Light, and still sticking to his story of it being the last one, I am inclined to believe him this time.

 

[Headsman]

Read or not to Read

I used to try and read the books before the newest one hit the street, but after book 6 or seven I just didn't have the time. So I got the audio disks. A little expensive but worth it. This allows you to skip through the boring stuff.

Book 11 was the best book in about 5 books. I thought that it closed a lot of the stories that were dragging on. I look forward to book 12 but I don't see how it could be the last book. Jordan needs to spend a lot of time on the Last Battle or this whole series will be a disappointment. I agree that the number 13 has to much significance for an other that takes delight in hidden meaning.

 

[Ulrik]

Well, uh, considering that Robert Jordan owns all of the rights to the books, I don't think a petition will influence Tor in anyway. I also don't think Jordan will be swayed by a petition. Artists are notoriously protective of their work and I don't think that Jordan would even ever say outloud that he could have trimmed the series down.

If you don't want to reread them, you're just going to have to skip them or read chapter summaries.

I know it's not feasible. I just wish.

Reading Knife of Dreams made me realize that I still like WoT a lot, something #8-#10 had nearly made me forget. What I really want is to balefire them, make it so they never happened!

Then RJ could start over on a new #8.

(The books themselves aren't quite this bad, but I feel that they sully the rest of the series )

 

[iwatt]

I, too, have been wondering if he really can finish the series in one more book. It seems like there's still too much that needs to happen.

Yeah, I share your worries. Look at what has to be finished, even without Tarmon Gaidon

- Rescue of Moraine
- Brigitte/Gaidal Cain
- Weld the armies together (Borderlander/Aiel/Seanchan)
- Peace with the Seanchan (Mat rocks)
- The broken crown and the throne of Saldea (Tenobia will bite the big one , long live the Wolf King)
- Seanchan Attack on the White Tower
- Rebellion in the Black Tower
- Purge of the Black Ajah
- Egwene defeat Elaida
- Egwene bonding Gawyn
- Nyanaeve getting Lan's bond
- A'shaman learning to cry and laugh


And probably a lo more things I'm forgetting

 

[drothgery]

I really think RJ can skip some of those

- Brigitte/Gaidal Cain

If Cain's out there, he's just a kid, and Brigitte's a main character's Warder, not a main character. This can stay unresolved.

- Weld the armies together (Borderlander/Aiel/Seanchan)

Not really important. In any kind of mass battle scenario, the forces of Shadow are royally screwed (the forces of Light have at least a 10:1 advantage in people who can channel, without the Seanchan and Shiado as dupes of the Shadow, and given that, there's only one way for battles to play out...), and there's nothing they can do about it, therefore the mass armies can't matter much.

- The broken crown and the throne of Saldea (Tenobia will bite the big one , long live the Wolf King)

Can easily be skipped. There's no real need to resolve this before TG.

- Egwene bonding Gawyn
- Nyanaeve getting Lan's bond

Again, this can easily be skipped or hand-waved past. I mean, we know Egwene will bond Gawyn as soon as they're together and he's convinced that she's really Aes Sedai. We know Myrelle will pass Lan's bond to Nynaeve as soon as they're all together.

 

[Ulrik]

- Brigitte/Gaidal Cain

If Cain's out there, he's just a kid, and Brigitte's a main character's Warder, not a main character. This can stay unresolved.

I thought this was Olver? Or is that a discredited theory?

 

[drothgery]

I thought this was Olver? Or is that a discredited theory?

Olver's too old. Time's funny in tel'aran'rhoid, but it doesn't move backwards.