Knife of Dreams - SPOILERS!

Xath

Moder-gator
Unless he's Sammael. Aran'gar has shown us that nothing is impossible with dead forsaken.

I have to go re-read the other books. Right now I'm just talking out of my buttox.
 

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cignus_pfaccari

First Post
drothgery said:
No, you just execute her. If she's knocked down from uber-powerful to merely strong (say, on a level with Moiraine), well, Moiraine killed one of the Forsaken and made a very good try at another one. Moggy got away. Rand thinks Asmo got away. It's just not worth it.

Agreed.

On the other hand, geeking her sends her back to Daddy, who will spin her back out ASAP. It took several books to get the other Forsaken (Forsook?), but presumably the Dark One will want the help at Tarmon Gai'don. Balefiring her out of the Pattern is apparently not an acceptable option, IIRC past books.

So, you Still her, and keep her under heavy guard. After all, can't have her going and killing herself to get away. Plus, if you're feeling adventurous, you can dangle the offer of restoring her ability to try and tease some cooperation out of her. If she does decide to cooperate, "borrow" the Oath Rod and make her swear on that, which ought to be interesting.

Brad
 

drothgery

First Post
Xath said:
Unless he's Sammael. Aran'gar has shown us that nothing is impossible with dead forsaken.

"Sammael is toast"
-Robert Jordan

Also, Taim was in the picture before Sammael was out of the picture, and Taim looks nothing like Sammael (fooling a skilled channeler with Illusion for an extended period requires at least a vaguely similar appearance).
 

iwatt

First Post
drothgery said:
"Sammael is toast"
-Robert Jordan

Yeah. He was taken down by Ishy/Moridin and Rand, when their balefire weaves crossed. (at least I think it was balefire).


Geting back on track, I liked most of the things mentioned by previous posters.

I did like how the Seanchan think almost everything Randlanders believe in is supperstition. But I think that Seanchan omen reading (birds, etc..) probably is also true. Kind of like warnings in the pattern. Similar to what "deja vu" (sp?) meant int The Matrix

I disliked splitting Elayne from Aviendha (another bloody plot line developing?). Also, I hope the Sea Folk leave the picture. What an anoying group they are.

I also disliked (and always have) Cadsuane's approach to teaching Rand and the A'shaman how to laugh and cry again. Take a paranoid, stubborn, half crazy, hyper-responsible guy like Rand, who after all is said and done knows he is the only one who can get things done. This will never mix well with someone who goes for mindgames instead of just plain talking straight.

Things I'm looking forward to:

1) when Tuon discovers that she's married to the Horn-Blower.
2) When the Wolf-King summons the wolves to Tarmon Gaidon. No more mopy Perrin please.
3) Egwene finally getting rid of Elaida. (She was summoned to Elaida's study, at the end of her last chapter). By the way, I think the Red Mistress of Novices will be the Official one when the tower unites. I have no idea who'll be the Keeper (I like Tarna Feir as well), but maybe Leane will regain her post.
4) Tarmon Gaidon. :]
5) Moraine, future queen of Cairhien (my bet is she looses her ability to channel), but who else will be
6) Tarmon Gaidon :]
7) Mat kicking some Gholam ass.
8) Tarmon Gaidon.
9) Lan v/s Slayer... (I think this will be the matchup)
10) Tarmon Gaidon :]
 

drothgery

First Post
iwatt said:
Also, I hope the Sea Folk leave the picture. What an anoying group they are.

It seems like the likeability of individual memebers an exotic culture in Jordan's world is inversely related to how evil the culture is. Most non-Darkfriend Seanchan seem like pretty nice people. But their society is built on institutional slavery, and women who can channel are treated little better than pets -- and psychologically tortured to the point where they believe this is the right thing to do.

Aiel are a pretty mixed lot; some are cool, some aren't. But they've got a society that's far more cruel and unrelenting than they need to, have real issues with torture, and tresspassers into the waste are sold as slaves to the Sharans.

And there's nothing at all that's inherently evil about the Sea Folk. But except for the ones that took Elayne and Nynaeve to Tanchico, they're just really annoying individually.
 

iwatt

First Post
drothgery said:
It seems like the likeability of individual memebers an exotic culture in Jordan's world is inversely related to how evil the culture is.

Good examples. :)

But I sort of disagree. Take Shienarans. A tradition of duty and responsibilty, and of protecting those weaker than them, and I've liked all those characters, Same deal with Saldeans. (and yes, I do like Faile, jealous and all).

Truth be told, the groups that annoy me have one thing in common: Females are the sole source of authority. For example: Aes Sedai, Wind Finders, the town with the huge Ter'nagreal thast blocks channeling.

The groups that "work" for me are those that have a balanced approach: Two rivers (Village Council/ Women's Circle); Aiel (Chiefs/Wise Ones), Ki8ngdoms of Randland (Theer are High Lords and Ladies).

I'm guessing Jordan did this on purpose, to illustrate that extreme forms of sexism are bad, maybe? Cause truth be told, you just want to shake some sense into Aes Sedai some times, and don't get me started on the Windfinders.
 

Samnell

Explorer
drothgery said:
It seems like the likeability of individual memebers an exotic culture in Jordan's world is inversely related to how evil the culture is.

For me it isn't just the exotic cultures. I find most of the Two Rivers folk incredibly unlikeable, and they're not really exotic. Maybe it's because I live in a small town. Unlike most of the exotics, Jordan clearly expects readers to like and relate to the Duopotamians too. He's said they're based on people from his childhood.

For a while I really liked the young Tairen lords Mat hung around with in Shadow Rising. They weren't terribly bright (which is usually a deal-breaker for me) and their society was just as screwed up and abusive as the Seanchan in its own way. I guess jaded semi-urbanites are easier for me to relate to than hidebound country folk. Probably says something about me. :)
 

talinthas

First Post
just finished. I love jordan again =)

A few notes- The last sentance of the book finally confirms that it really is Taimandred =) (recall Lord of Chaos, where demandred is given the command to let the Lord of Chaos Rule, both in the prologue and the epilogue.)

I jumped up and cheered when Galina got jacked by Therava, and again when Suroth got sold into slavery. Punks got what they deserved =)

The Golden Crane rides for Armageddon! I've been waiting for that since the Great bloody Hunt =)

Jordan is wrapping up, but i hate how so many of the long long long story arcs are coming to utterly anti climactic endings. Like a page or two, and bam! an 8,000 page arc is ended, moving on. Rand losing his hand, Eganin and Domon (though i really love that the tower of ghenji is finally coming into play), and so on.

But the way the story is going, there's no way he's gonna be able to finish in one book. And if he could, it wouldnt be very satisfactory.
 

Starman

Adventurer
talinthas said:
just finished. I love jordan again =)

A few notes- The last sentance of the book finally confirms that it really is Taimandred =) (recall Lord of Chaos, where demandred is given the command to let the Lord of Chaos Rule, both in the prologue and the epilogue.)

Didn't Jordan come out and say that Taim wasn't Demandred, though? I could have sworn he did.

talinthas said:
I jumped up and cheered when Galina got jacked by Therava, and again when Suroth got sold into slavery. Punks got what they deserved =)

I agree.

talinthas said:
The Golden Crane rides for Armageddon! I've been waiting for that since the Great bloody Hunt =)

This was one of my favorite parts of the book.

talinthas said:
Jordan is wrapping up, but i hate how so many of the long long long story arcs are coming to utterly anti climactic endings. Like a page or two, and bam! an 8,000 page arc is ended, moving on. Rand losing his hand, Eganin and Domon (though i really love that the tower of ghenji is finally coming into play), and so on.

Again, I agree. It was nice to see subplots coming to a conclusion, however, I think Jordan is under a lot of pressure to finish the series and so things that should have been more dramatic, such as Rand losing his hand, Perrin's battle against the Shaido, Aram's betrayal, etc. are being given the quick finish. It's rather disappointing. We go several books with very little happening to one book where a whole lot happens, but it's too quick and anti-climatic.

talinthas said:
But the way the story is going, there's no way he's gonna be able to finish in one book. And if he could, it wouldnt be very satisfactory.

I'm wondering how the next book is going to be, myself. After I finished Knife of Dreams, I thought that book twelve is either going to be a 1500 page monstrosity to cram everything in or it's going to be shorter and very anti-climatic. I'm hoping for the 1500 page monstrosity, myself. We'll see.

Anyone see that Jordan has said that the tentative title for the next book is A Memory of Light. I like it and I think it leads to some interesting ideas for the plot.
 

Starman

Adventurer
Starman said:
Didn't Jordan come out and say that Taim wasn't Demandred, though? I could have sworn he did.

I just checked the FAQ. http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/1_dark/1.1_forsaken1/1.1.5_taimandred.html

Taim is not Demandred in disguise.

How do we know? Because RJ said so.

Q: "It's been said that you mentioned that Mazrim Taim is not Demandred. There seems to be some confusion on whether or not you said that."
A: "Mazrim Taim is not Demandred."

[Matthew Julius, post-COT signing, Dayton, OH, January 16, 2003]
Tim Kington concurs:

Q: "Taim is clearly not Demandred, right?"
A: (Disgusted) "I've said that before, and it's not Taim, it's Ta-eeem."

The same response was also reported on wotmania.com, in LiveJournal's Wheel of Time community, and in several emails.

I think the quote means that Demandred has been using Taim for his schemes.
 

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