Knife of Dreams - SPOILERS!

[Orius]

Y Also, I hope the Sea Folk leave the picture. What an anoying group they are.

I never really liked them that much. The only thing they've really accomplished was fixing the weather in Book 8. Otherwise, their whole Bargain with Rand is mostly pointless. The most important thing for them to do byy the agreement was warn him of the Seanchan. But at that point, they're already taken Amador and are on their way to Ebou Dar. He certainly doesn't need them for the Last Battle. Nothing else they do or say it at all interesting (a shame too, because their social structure seems a bit interesting if I could make myself care).

1) when Tuon discovers that she's married to the Horn-Blower.

Nah. When Mat discovers that she knows.

9) Lan v/s Slayer... (I think this will be the matchup)

I'm thinking Slayer vs. Perrin is another strong possibility.

 

[Orius]

But I sort of disagree. Take Shienarans. A tradition of duty and responsibilty, and of protecting those weaker than them, and I've liked all those characters, Same deal with Saldeans. (and yes, I do like Faile, jealous and all).

Truth be told, the groups that annoy me have one thing in common: Females are the sole source of authority. For example: Aes Sedai, Wind Finders, the town with the huge Ter'nagreal thast blocks channeling.

The groups that "work" for me are those that have a balanced approach: Two rivers (Village Council/ Women's Circle); Aiel (Chiefs/Wise Ones), Ki8ngdoms of Randland (Theer are High Lords and Ladies).

I'm guessing Jordan did this on purpose, to illustrate that extreme forms of sexism are bad, maybe? Cause truth be told, you just want to shake some sense into Aes Sedai some times, and don't get me started on the Windfinders.

The way understand, it's supposed to show a society that is the flip side of the Middle Ages: where in the Middle Ages, women were seen as the cause of humanity falling from grace, in the Third Age men are percieved as being at fault because of LTT's pride and the tainting of saidin. They're still uppity bitches, but it does make sense.

 

[Orius]

It seems like the likeability of individual memebers an exotic culture in Jordan's world is inversely related to how evil the culture is. Most non-Darkfriend Seanchan seem like pretty nice people. But their society is built on institutional slavery, and women who can channel are treated little better than pets -- and psychologically tortured to the point where they believe this is the right thing to do.

RJ I think did a great job with portaying the Seanchan. Not a place I'd like to live of course, but he sets them up TGH as a long-term threat, but in PoD he starts showing their side, because at this point most readers are probably hating their guts with stuff like damane and da'covale. They're not just faceless bad guys.

Aiel are a pretty mixed lot; some are cool, some aren't. But they've got a society that's far more cruel and unrelenting than they need to, have real issues with torture, and tresspassers into the waste are sold as slaves to the Sharans.

I like the Aiel except for the Shaido. Many of the major recurring Aiel are among the more enjoyable minor characters. And their hostility makes some sense. They started out as complete pacifists. Everyone in the AoL knew what an Aiel was, but that changed in the Breaking. They had to become hard to survive, and it gave them a very strong mistrust of anyone who was not Aiel. When they followed the Jenn Aiel into the Waste they had to remain hard, because life there was harsh. Bair summed it up pretty well in TSR: "Soft things die, here."

And there's nothing at all that's inherently evil about the Sea Folk. But except for the ones that took Elayne and Nynaeve to Tanchico, they're just really annoying individually.

I agree. They seem interesting at first, but RJ makes them boring. I don't know if it's because they seem so arrogant, or because of the annoying Windfinders vs. Aes Sedai vs. Kin plotline of PoD.

 

[Orius]

Didn't Jordan come out and say that Taim wasn't Demandred, though? I could have sworn he did.

Yes he did. I believe he also said that we haven't seen who, if anyone, he is pretending to be outside Shayol Ghul.

 

[Orius]

(and you have to hand it to RJ, his naming of sowrd moves and weaves is pretty cool and evocative )

Yeah, the sword forms have cool names. And it's also better than him simply giving a bunch of boring blow by blow descriptions of the duels. That was another great part of the Galad vs. Valda duel — he mentions lots of sword forms that he introduced earlier, some as far back as TGH, while throwing in some new ones as well.

 

[Orius]

and why no satisfactory end for sevannah?

She was captured by the Seanchan and tied naked across a saddle. Presumably she's going to end up as da'covale, which really is a fitting end for her given how she enjoyed taking all those wetlanders as gai'shain

 

[Orius]

Now the truth is, I don't think he can really finish the series in one last book. Also, since 13 is just to powerful a number, I'm thinking Jordan will get another book out of the series.

I've though for a while that it would be 13 books. It just seems to be the right number of books to take care of all the plots, and also 13 has several significant meaning in his universe. However, I understand that he is geting tired of working on the series (he's been at it about 20 years now) he want to get it over with. I think he might be able to finish it in 1 book, but I doubt the whole book will be about Tar'mon Gaidin. Though on the other hand, if he does go 13, the best possible ending for the next book would be to have the Trollocs suddenly swarming out of the Blight without warning. I was expecting that at the end of this one actually.

 

[Ulrik]

I've though for a while that it would be 13 books. It just seems to be the right number of books to take care of all the plots, and also 13 has several significant meaning in his universe. However, I understand that he is geting tired of working on the series (he's been at it about 20 years now) he want to get it over with. I think he might be able to finish it in 1 book, but I doubt the whole book will be about Tar'mon Gaidin. Though on the other hand, if he does go 13, the best possible ending for the next book would be to have the Trollocs suddenly swarming out of the Blight without warning. I was expecting that at the end of this one actually.

Well, what do you call those 100,000 Trollocs attacking Rand & Co.?

Actually, I dread the possibility that book 12 is the last one. I've been waiting Ages for this series to be done, but if he wraps it up in the next book it will just be rushed and unsatisfactory. Even worse, the first half will just be braid-thugging, sniffing and thinking someone else knows more about women than me, and the last battle will be done in one chapter.

 

[iwatt]

Nothing else they do or say it at all interesting (a shame too, because their social structure seems a bit interesting if I could make myself care).

Yeah, they could be cooler, but all we see is the bossy/bitchy behavior. No info on master of the sword (i think that was their name?). What I find intersting is that a windfinders atatus is determined more by the ship's and captain status than her own ability.

Nah. When Mat discovers that she knows.

Actually that would be cool,but I think the only ones that know, IIRC are Hurin, Mat, Rand, Perin, Verin, Moraine, Lan (probably), Birgitte, and Siuan. And I think Tuon was pretty honest about what info the Foretlling her Damane gave her. His status as Hornblower is pretty secret IMHO.

I'm thinking Slayer vs. Perrin is another strong possibility.

Yeah. Maybe Perrin in Telharanriod against Luc, and Lan v's Isam in the Blight. That would be awesome.


Anyhow, who do you think takes down Shaidar Haran and Moridind? Rand against both?

 

[Orius]

Anyhow, who do you think takes down Shaidar Haran and Moridind? Rand against both?

Probably it will be Rand vs. Moridin. That's a pair that's faced off time and again throughout the ages. Don't really know who if anyone will take out SH. I haven't really thought too much about who's going to battle who at TG. It seems a good bet the Nynaeve will eventually finish Moghedien off though.