Yeah, he can easily skip past almost every little detail in his world, and have a book solely dedicated to a massive battle. I'd just like some better closure. Also, after all the different characters he's introduced, I'd hope for a pretty strong epilogue.
Not really important. In any kind of mass battle scenario, the forces of Shadow are royally screwed (the forces of Light have at least a 10:1 advantage in people who can channel,
I'm not sure the correlataion is that bad, but anyways, there is the fact that channeling close to Shayol Ghul is very bad idea. Finally, a massive horde of trollocs is nothing to snear at (look at the trolloc wars). That was a time when Aes Sedai were very powerful (ability hadn't been culled from mankind), and that war lasted 300 years.
I'm not sure the correlataion is that bad, but anyways, there is the fact that channeling close to Shayol Ghul is very bad idea. Finally, a massive horde of trollocs is nothing to snear at (look at the trolloc wars). That was a time when Aes Sedai were very powerful (ability hadn't been culled from mankind), and that war lasted 300 years.
That's because the Trolloc Wars were a Plot Device; it makes no sense for them to have lasted that long given the way the world works in the "modern era" of the novels. Given how the One Power dominates battles in the novels, and that the Aes Sedai always badly outnumbered the dreadlords, the Tower should have been able to ride out in force, smack the Trollocs around, and send them running back to the Blight.
Besides, you did read that trolloc attack scene in KoD, right?
Rand and a handful of others destroyed about a hundred thousand trollocs and fades.
Trollocs are basically worthless against skilled channelers. And given that borderlanders routinely beat them without channeling support despite being badly outnumbered, I'd say trollocs are worthless against skilled soldiers. Ergo, trollocs are worthless, period. Plus
they can't Travel
, which makes the a logistical liability, not an asset.
I'm sorry, but you state this as a fact, and I have seen no evidence of it in the books. Also, it was mostly the green Ajah that participated in battle. That's just 1/7th of the Ajahs. Because I don't see the White tower giving up their meddling and sending all the sisters to battle And in the Trolloc Wars the Wise ones didn't participate in battle. I think not many will participate now either.
I think there is a lot of Dreadlords around. They're probably in the ranks of the Ashaman right now, and apparently a lot of the Black Ajah seem to be in the upper spectrum of power as well. Also, the Dark one has one huge advantage: he can replace his Dreadlords. Just needs bodies
About the logistics: it's not that Trollocs can't Travel (I'm guessing you're inferring that from the battle in KoD). Those weren't Gateways, they were Deathgates (part of the weave helped kill shadowspan). And also, Trollocs are logistical dream: they eat whatever they find, probably even other Trollocs
As this is a spoiler-thread, I don't think we need to bother with the spoiler tags.
But remember, Rand realized that without Logain and his crew there to back him and the Aes Sedai up, he'd've been overrun. As is, one or two got almost close enough to get into melee. And therein lies the key.
Remember, Rand is the most powerful modern male channeler in the world, with his channeling guided by the foremost male channeler of the Age of Legends. If he has trouble with a passel of Trollocs using forgotten massively powerful combat weaves with reasonable warning, imagine how much more difficult it is for a run of the mill Aes Sedai.
Females, if you recall, favor Air and Water, which don't offer much in the way of combat weaves. And we can expect only 1/7th of the Aes Sedai to be ruthlessly optimized for combat. Even if we have a Green who has a thousand-yard stare, she's still not necessarily going to be prepared all the time. A determined charge with no warning could (and probably did) kill any Aes Sedai, no matter how tough.
Even in mass battles, having a channeler on your side isn't a guarantee of victory. They're no more arrowproof than any other person who doesn't wear armor. Sure, there might be weaves against that, but that's a weave you're not using to blow things up. They may not be able to kill things fast enough to avoid getting overrun and killed, as almost happened to Rand. While he can defend himself fairly well, having him participate in melee removes him from fire support, which means many more trollocs get through.
And, of course, if there is a channeler on the other side, you'll have to get through them first. They'll try and take each other out, effectively neutralizing each other.
And given that borderlanders routinely beat them without channeling support despite being badly outnumbered, I'd say trollocs are worthless against skilled soldiers.
I don't know about that. They're big and tough and wield nasty weapons; they're effectively equivalent to D&D ogres. They're individually much more powerful than a normal person, but rather ill-tempered. I also seem to remember that the Borderlanders really did prefer to fight them with a 3-1 ratio at least, and still took casualties. Also, the trollocs don't seem to have nearly as many noncombatants as the Borderlanders; their females fight much more often, and also seem to be pretty fecund.
I imagine that the Borderlanders do their darnedest to choose the time and place of their engagements, and do as much of their fighting at distance as possible. They particularly seem to employ mounted archers, if Davram Bashere's soldiers are typical, so an obvious tactic would be a rolling ambush. Infantry would most likely be best employed similiarly to the Band of the Red Hand, with pikes and archers.
As this is a spoiler-thread, I don't think we need to bother with the spoiler tags.
But remember, Rand realized that without Logain and his crew there to back him and the Aes Sedai up, he'd've been overrun. As is, one or two got almost close enough to get into melee. And therein lies the key.
Remember, Rand is the most powerful modern male channeler in the world, with his channeling guided by the foremost male channeler of the Age of Legends. If he has trouble with a passel of Trollocs using forgotten massively powerful combat weaves with reasonable warning, imagine how much more difficult it is for a run of the mill Aes Sedai.
The thing is that it was a handful of channelers vs a hundred thousand trollocs. More typially, it'd be a few hundred soldiers screening a few dozen channelers figthing thousands or tens of thousands of trollocs.
cignus_pfaccari said:
Females, if you recall, favor Air and Water, which don't offer much in the way of combat weaves. And we can expect only 1/7th of the Aes Sedai to be ruthlessly optimized for combat. Even if we have a Green who has a thousand-yard stare, she's still not necessarily going to be prepared all the time. A determined charge with no warning could (and probably did) kill any Aes Sedai, no matter how tough.
Closer to 1/4; about half of all Aes Sedai are Green or Red (slightly more Reds than Greens). Of course, we know that at least some Blues can be extremely effective in combat (as per Moiraine), the Reds probably know their way around a fight as well, and the others might need a Green to show them what to do, but that doesn't take too long (as per Verin & Alanna in the Two Rivers -- the exploding catapult stones were almost certainly Alanna's idea). I don't think Agelmar was exaggerating when he said that Moiraine would be worth a thousand lances by herself.
cignus_pfaccari said:
Even in mass battles, having a channeler on your side isn't a guarantee of victory. They're no more arrowproof than any other person who doesn't wear armor. Sure, there might be weaves against that, but that's a weave you're not using to blow things up. They may not be able to kill things fast enough to avoid getting overrun and killed, as almost happened to Rand. While he can defend himself fairly well, having him participate in melee removes him from fire support, which means many more trollocs get through.
And, of course, if there is a channeler on the other side, you'll have to get through them first. They'll try and take each other out, effectively neutralizing each other.
Initial thoughts before diving into the rest of this thread:
The good:
Galad becoming leader of the Whitecloaks.
Egwene's resistance in the White Tower.
Nynaeve dumping Lan in Saldaea and then recruiting people follow him.
Pretty much all of Mat's plotline.
Loial encountering his mother and getting married.
Loial and Elder Haman taking down the big axes to fight the Shadowspawn.
Bad guys finally getting theirs (Valda, Galina, Suroth, and Sevanna).
Lots of plot points getting wrapped up.
The bad:
Elayne's plot line taking up 7 or 8 chapters where it only needed two.
We didn't get to see Egwene confront Elaida (at least now yet).
The freaky:
The ghost village that sucked the peddler into the ground.
The ripples in the Pattern threatening to unravel everything.
Palaces and the White Tower rearranging themselves.
Semirhage taking out the entire Seanchan royal family and plunging the entire continent into chaos (yet she gets captured rather easily; shouldn't she know weaves can be inverted?).
On one hand, this plotline has been dragged out quite long, and it probably should have been wrapped up in this book. But on the other hand, I liked Egwene's total defiance of Elaida. Great scenes included the disastrous novice class, the novices all standing up to honor her in the mess hall, and the parts where Egwene sows doubt into the minds of as many sisters as she can manage. Elaida will almost certainly be brought down in the next book, and she will probably fall very hard.
What really bored me was Elayne's whole plotline from WH to KoD. It took too long too wrap up, overshadowed too many other important plots, and was very anticlimatic when it ended. Also annoying to me is how she's constantly blaming Rand for getting her pregnant in her PoV when she demanded he sleep with her in the first place, and then didn't bother to drink that contraceptive tea. Slut. (Yeah, she's my least favorite character.)
I agree that it dragged far too long. The other odd thing about the rescue was Faile's reaction to Rolan's death. I expected more there. I didn't mind seeing Rolan die, though he was cool, her reaction was just odd. Aram's betrayal was a bit too quick, as well.
Yeah Rolan's death was a WTF moment. Let's see, he protects her and her friends from being raped by the Shaido drunks, offers to help them escape, and pulls them out of the building that Galina knocked over on them, all to get smacked upside the head with Perrin's hammer. No good deads going unpunished here for sure! And Faile didn't seem all that fazed by it either.
As for Aram's death, I was disappointed that Perrin didn't take Masema out. I knew Aram was going to end up dying a violent death as well.
Well, I know a lot of fans have been wanting to see this for a long time now, but I'm glad RJ didn't try to squeeze it in here. It wouldn't have fit. Mat had too much to to in this one, and I want the Finn smackdown to kick butt.
I also suspect that Elaida is so earth-shatteringly stupid (even for a Jordan character) that she can do most of her own screwing up without any help from a Black Ajah Keeper.
Persoanlly, I think Fain's influence on her back in Book 5 is what made her stupid. I think he did something to her to enhance her natural arrogance, and sow suspision in her so she trusts few non-Reds which has lead to all her massive blunders. Before that she was very bitchy, but she didn't seem like a moron, however I haven't read the long version of New Spring, so maybe I'm wrong.
And in the Trolloc Wars the Wise ones didn't participate in battle. I think not many will participate now either.![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
