D&D 5E Legends & Lore 7/21/14

[Juriel]

I think the human identity in Basic is pretty strong. They're the diverse, can-do-anything race, and they build great and lasting ideas rather than being alive themselves for years. They're welcoming of all and may be heroes or villains.

This is contra the elf or the dwarf, who have a more limited scope, and tend not to innovate as much, and tend to keep among their own kind more than adventuring out in the world.

That's not telling me anything, you're just describing their culture. If any of that is true on an individual level, then that needs to show up in their stats.

There is nothing in Humans that says 'achieve stuff in the short time they have available', any more than Elves have mechanical base for 'screw around for hundreds of years without accomplishing anything'.

What we have are Human individuals who shore up their weak stats (which no-one needs), against ubermensch individuals who can actually achieve great stuff. If anything, Humans get painted as 'afraid to fail' dummies, if they go for the +1 to every stat.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's not telling me anything, you're just describing their culture. If any of that is true on an individual level, then that needs to show up in their stats.

The "+1 to all ability scores" seems to represent that ability to be good at anything, that diversity that allows them to move to any extreme, the thing that makes them really good at what they don't choose to specialize in. To a lesser degree, the skill+feat also do this, in representing a breadth of abilities that humans may acquire, and how one won't fit as reliably into class archetypes.

Mechanically, that's their identity: "we can do anything."

Compare this to an elf fighter. Elves can be fighters. They will not be as good at fighting as a human is. And if that human learns magic, she'll be pretty good at that, too. Maybe not as good as an elf, but better than a halfling. And she'll be better at thieving than a dwarf thief, too. "Jack of all trades" style.

 

[Sacrosanct]

That's not telling me anything, you're just describing their culture. If any of that is true on an individual level, then that needs to show up in their stats.

There is nothing in Humans that says 'achieve stuff in the short time they have available', any more than Elves have mechanical base for 'screw around for hundreds of years without accomplishing anything'.

What we have are Human individuals who shore up their weak stats (which no-one needs), against ubermensch individuals who can actually achieve great stuff. If anything, Humans get painted as 'afraid to fail' dummies, if they go for the +1 to every stat.

I think you put too much importance on trying to make the game about stats. You don't have to have a modifier or a mechanic to drive a description, behavior, or aspect of a race into game play.

 

[TwoSix]

What we have are Human individuals who shore up their weak stats (which no-one needs), against ubermensch individuals who can actually achieve great stuff. If anything, Humans get painted as 'afraid to fail' dummies, if they go for the +1 to every stat.

Does anyone remember the complaint threads about humans getting a +1 to every stat, how that would be the first thing to get house-ruled because it was so overboard? Doesn't that seem like a long time ago?

 

[GravyFingerz]

Does anyone remember the complaint threads about humans getting a +1 to every stat, how that would be the first thing to get house-ruled because it was so overboard? Doesn't that seem like a long time ago?

http://youtu.be/6pDugHeoXg4

 

[The Hitcher]

Actor

+1 Cha, advantage on Cha (Deception) and Cha (Performance) checks when "acting, mimicry.

Tavern Brawler (I love this one)

+1 Str or Con, proficient with improvised weapons, d6 unarmed damage, bonus action to grapple with unarmed or improvised weapon attack, advantage on saves vs becoming intoxicated

Thanks Scrivener! Tavern Brawler is great. Actor sounds like fun, too!

Can you use DECEPTION in combat? If you can't use deception, I don't see how the ACTOR feat is anything more than a "flavor feat". It would suck if that was the only "bardy" option.

Making everything about combat is boring. Pull out the Deception BEFORE combat, and you might get your way without starting a fight! (Edit: someone else already made this point up-thread, I see - I think Advantage is still a big boost here, although frankly failing Deception checks can be just as much fun as succeeding at them!)

EDIT: How did this thread become another boring argument about human racial bonuses? They are what they are. Deal with it or house rule them, but please shut up about it.

 

[Gradine]

Humans can get a feat at 1st level. That's pretty huge, considering how major feats are. Nobody else, not even Fighters, can get a feat until 4th. Consider that feats in 5e aren't minor boons, but major, build-defining elements, and that humans start with one right out of the gate. It really cements both the "humans are pretty good at anything" element, as well as the "humans are innovative and short lived and this drives them to greatness" element. It's a flavorful element, and ties entirely into what humans represent in D&D. The extra skill is just a nod to past editions. If you don't end up allowing feats I don't really know how you go about making humans worthwhile without creating endless regional variants that make humans no different from any other race.

I remember reading somewhere that a feat from the alpha leak (I'd guess Skilled) gives three skill proficiencies, so there's your ratio, if it's still true.

 

[Evenglare]

Humans can get a feat at 1st level. That's pretty huge, considering how major feats are.

Pretty much this. Especially now after we have a pretty good idea of what feats are and what they can do.

 

[gyor]

I'll point out that deception can be used in combat, but without a special class feauture, it would take an action just like anyother skill check. Still I can see this as useful for feinting your enemies to gain advantage.

I bet there is a rogue subclass that allows this just a guess, but I wouldn't be surpised.

As for Tavern Brawler, well that's just pure fun. Its unarmed attack buff, mixed with improvisation feats, and advantage on intoxicant for those drinking contests, but does the bonus action count as 2 weapon fighting?

 

[doctorhook]

I think there are way too few feats and way too few skills and way too few backgrounds.

Not sure about skills but I'd be shocked if future books failed to provide additional options for feats and backgrounds. So it's a lack that won't take long to assuage.

While I'd love to see more feats and backgrounds, I'd rather we're stuck with a couple dozen solid, flavourful ones than have endless waves of mediocre ones--or worse, incrementally better ones--in a couple years' time.

As for more skills, you're mad. Completely mad. What for? There's already a few too many. You're mad!

What we have are Human individuals who shore up their weak stats (which no-one needs), against ubermensch individuals who can actually achieve great stuff. If anything, Humans get painted as 'afraid to fail' dummies, if they go for the +1 to every stat.

So far 5E remains a system where any combination is viable. A 5E character who opts to be well-rounded rather than highly specialized will not be the great party hindrance that such a character would have been in 3E. 5E humans get to be completely versatile in this regard, at a cost of the mechanical strengths of other races. (It remains to be seen whether feats will completely invalidate the strength of any given race.)