Let's Talk About Metacurrency

[TwoSix]

Nothing at all wrong with downtime training and study going hand in hand with xp.

Edit to add: where xp really do become meta is if they become a spendable currency such as 3.xe D&D had them. That IMO was awful design.

That's not meta at all. That's just using XP as a measurement of a diegetic, spiritual essence.

If undead can suck the XP out of you as level drain, why can't a mage siphon that power via spellcraft?

 

[billd91]

Like I said, the way the damage save system works, you'd just have supers that folded up ridiculously frequently on a first shot without Hero Points, because the D20 roll has so much swing in it. and the categories are so broad. Something like Champions can get by without use of metacurrency because its heavily designed to make it actually really hard to put down someone with one hit (and for many editions, killing attacks broke this fairly frequently because, again, the stun multiple die was a single D6 producing massive swings). M&M--isn't that. Other elements of the game you could write-off hero point usage if you wanted to and not get gross problems, but you'd have to really rework damage if you wanted to avoid using them.

Well, for M&M that's a feature, not a bug. It's a prime source of hero points. You go down in M&M, you get a hero point for use later in the caper.

 

[Lanefan]

Except that training in AD&D is separate and required after acruing the XP. (Not that most play it that way.)

I've always assumed characters have already trained for 1st level before starting your played career. 1e even calls this out specifically by modifying a character's starting age based on its class(es), to reflect the time taken to train into the class to begin with.

 

[Lanefan]

Yes, if you use the training rules, that makes the XP entirely meta as it's not what you are doing to earn the XP that is advancing you. It's the training you are paying gold for AFTER you've gotten the XP.

BEFORE you've got the XP.

You train for 1st level (before coming into play) then go out and earn xp by putting that training to use. Then you train for 2nd level, and go out and earn xp by putting that training to use. Lather rinse repeat.

 

[Lanefan]

That's not meta at all. That's just using XP as a measurement of a diegetic, spiritual essence.

If undead can suck the XP out of you as level drain, why can't a mage siphon that power via spellcraft?

I've always had it that level-draining undead are in fact messing with your memory such that you forget your recent training and field experience. Restoration restores these memories, including those of being trained up.

 

[TwoSix]

I've always had it that level-draining undead are in fact messing with your memory such that you forget your recent training and field experience. Restoration restores these memories, including those of being trained up.

You could do that, but I think making it supernatural makes a lot more sense. It’s a better simulation of how a fantasy D&D world would really work.

 

[Lanefan]

You could do that, but I think making it supernatural makes a lot more sense. It’s a better simulation of how a fantasy D&D world would really work.

That's fair. The lost-memory idea ain't a perfect explanation anyway, but it's something.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Fair enough. In those situations my primary focus is on emotion-based decision making, not reason-based. Also I really don't like retcon-based mechanics or free descriptor systems (like Marvel Heroic), which were specifically discussed.

But there's definitely some hypocrisy there I'll admit.

Sometimes the desires we have are strings that don't meet in the middle. But I just wanted to note that if you want someone to be able to play Batman as he's commonly depicted, you have to let something go here. True superhero settings (as contrast with people-with-powers settings) have some genre conventions baked in, and this is one of those cases where you can't have your cake and eat it too. I believe you're aware of that too, but you just do need to keep it in mind here.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, for M&M that's a feature, not a bug. It's a prime source of hero points. You go down in M&M, you get a hero point for use later in the caper.

That's one way, but its not close to a primary source, because you'd get one Hero Point out of it, and you're going to need more than that. And no, I don't have any sign that sudden-death takedowns are an intended result of M&M, and its one of the few games I was involved in extensively enough I feel pretty much certain that's true. The way Hero Points interact with saves is there to address the over-variance on that in most case; people almost never fold up until they're out of Hero Points or they decide to (and thus don't spend them that way).