D&D 5E Lightning Bolt should be better.

[Voadam]

I am using the "Make a Template" method. You create a template for Lightning Bolt, 1 inch wide, 20 long. Then apply it to the grid as per XGtE (p.86):

Got it.

XGtE 86:

"This section offers two alternatives for determining the exact location of an area: the template method and the token method. Both of these methods assume you're using a grid and miniatures of some sort. Because these methods can yield different results for the number of squares in a given area, it's not recommended that they be combined at the table choose whichever method you and your players find easier or more intuitive."

It is dissapointing the core rules left this type of area of effect coverage on a grid ambiguous. Its not like they didn't have experience since 2000 across 3e, 3.5, and 4e grids to draw on.

 

[Mistwell]

Got it.

XGtE 86:

"This section offers two alternatives for determining the exact location of an area: the template method and the token method. Both of these methods assume you're using a grid and miniatures of some sort. Because these methods can yield different results for the number of squares in a given area, it's not recommended that they be combined at the table choose whichever method you and your players find easier or more intuitive."

It is dissapointing the core rules left this type of area of effect coverage on a grid ambiguous. Its not like they didn't have experience since 2000 across 3e, 3.5, and 4e grids to draw on.

Yes the different methods yield different results. I just figured in a thread arguing a line effect isn't working as well as they'd like, using the legal option which gets the best result for that line effect seemed appropriate.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I can't remember the last time I ever saw someone cast Goodberry - even though we do track rations! It's just not on our radar, for some reason.

Best to keep it that way lol. If Druids were more common or this was 4E, it'd get nerfed like Healing Spirit did (like Healing Spirit it can provide tons of out-of-combat healing - at the end of the adventuring day you just burn all remaining spell slots into Goodberries, which last 24h). The DM also once allowed me to sling three berries into the Barbarian's mouth, narrowly saving his life in a tricky situation, but that was pure stunt (and a lucky roll at that given I had Disadvantage to do it).

 

[Mort]

Best to keep it that way lol. If Druids were more common or this was 4E, it'd get nerfed like Healing Spirit did (like Healing Spirit it can provide tons of out-of-combat healing - at the end of the adventuring day you just burn all remaining spell slots into Goodberries, which last 24h). The DM also once allowed me to sling three berries into the Barbarian's mouth, narrowly saving his life in a tricky situation, but that was pure stunt (and a lucky roll at that given I had Disadvantage to do it).

For true ridiculousness, have the druid take a level of life cleric -supercharges EVERY goodberry (as has been ruled RAW). Not sure I'd allow that, honestly, but haven't had it come up.

 

[Lanefan]

Best to keep it that way lol. If Druids were more common or this was 4E, it'd get nerfed like Healing Spirit did (like Healing Spirit it can provide tons of out-of-combat healing - at the end of the adventuring day you just burn all remaining spell slots into Goodberries, which last 24h).

Easy fix for this: just houserule that the berries have to be eaten within 10 minutes or they lose their healing effect. The nourishment effect remains for 24 hours.

The DM also once allowed me to sling three berries into the Barbarian's mouth, narrowly saving his life in a tricky situation, but that was pure stunt (and a lucky roll at that given I had Disadvantage to do it).

Now that's just plain cool!

 

[tetrasodium]

I wasn't really comparing the 3E wizard to the 5E wizard, though. I was pointing out that the 5E wizard is constrained by his spell slots more than his prep slots. If you want to argue that his slot capacity is too low, that's a different argument than I was making.

That style of isolated thinking is how you get the 5e style of too many things adding up that each individually try to fix something & hugely overcompensate as a collective whole.

Obviously you disagree with the statement "Though i think people seriously overestimate how far Level+Int spells go. A level 5 wizard gets 8 or 9 spells realistically. Three per spell level. That doesn’t leave a lot of flexibility." or you wouldn't have made this post trying to claim wizards are just as good in that regard if not better using a factually incorrect counting of resources that ignored how the wizard had dramatically more spell selection options as they continued past the level eight break even point. You were proven wrong and either need to amend the claim or admit it's wrong. Claiming you were misunderstood & that the evidence showing just how wrong you were could maybe be used as part of some completely unrelated point trying to target one off problems that combine to a whole in isolation

 

[houser2112]

That style of isolated thinking is how you get the 5e style of too many things adding up that each individually try to fix something & hugely overcompensate as a collective whole.

Obviously you disagree with the statement "Though i think people seriously overestimate how far Level+Int spells go. A level 5 wizard gets 8 or 9 spells realistically. Three per spell level. That doesn’t leave a lot of flexibility." or you wouldn't have made this post trying to claim wizards are just as good in that regard if not better using a factually incorrect counting of resources that ignored how the wizard had dramatically more spell selection options as they continued past the level eight break even point. You were proven wrong and either need to amend the claim or admit it's wrong. Claiming you were misunderstood & that the evidence showing just how wrong you were could maybe be used as part of some completely unrelated point trying to target one off problems that combine to a whole in isolation

You were the one comparing the 5E wizard's spell slots to the 3E wizard's spell slots, and some irrelevant stuff about breakeven points. I was comparing the 5E wizard's spell slots to his prep slots, noting how that if you start with 16 Int, and use your first 2 ASIs on Int, you will always be able to prep at least as many spells as you can physically cast. If you think that Level + Int is too few spells, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that is beside the point. Even if you could prep more, you're still limited by the spells per day, so that's where you should be directing your ire with the game's design.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Easy fix for this: just houserule that the berries have to be eaten within 10 minutes or they lose their healing effect. The nourishment effect remains for 24 hours.

Yeah the sheer number of houserules around Goodberry is pretty hysterical - I saw an entire lengthy Youtube video (with animations IIRC) breaking down how it was broken and examining a bunch of fixes for it. That guy actually thought the nourishment was the major problem rather than the HP gain, because of the narrative impact. Personally I think 8 hours would probably be better than 10 mins because then you couldn't do cast-n-long-rest, because they'd be worthless after the long rest, but if you cast them early in the adventuring day, they'd still be good later in the adventuring day, which seems reasonable.

 

[jgsugden]

yes, you have the right to run the game AS YOU WANT. It's up to you.
....
BUUUUT

Some people might think that your rulings make no sense, and tell you. That's a consequence of talking about your rulings online. Sometimes people will disagree with you.

There is a huge difference between, "I would not play it that way because XXXX" and "You're playing wrong." The aggressive and demanding nature of the discourse telling me that I was playing incorrectly, despite it not being wrong under RAW, was certainly more of the later than the former.

 

[tetrasodium]

You were the one comparing the 5E wizard's spell slots to the 3E wizard's spell slots, and some irrelevant stuff about breakeven points. I was comparing the 5E wizard's spell slots to his prep slots, noting how that if you start with 16 Int, and use your first 2 ASIs on Int, you will always be able to prep at least as many spells as you can physically cast. If you think that Level + Int is too few spells, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that is beside the point. Even if you could prep more, you're still limited by the spells per day, so that's where you should be directing your ire with the game's design.

The 3.x comparisons have been around in this thread for a long time, often by people using 3.x-isms to defend the state of 5e like when someone referenced a level 8 bard/warlock spell as evidence of quadratic wizards because it used to be when it was a third level wizard spell as one particularly heinous example. It was those kind of comparisons that the post you were disagreeing with was refuting.

Well "wizards have more prep slots than their reduced spell slots with which those linear wizards can prepare hamstrung spells usually also saddled with concentration hoping to desperately keep up as a maybe sometimes useful sidekick to their quadratic warrior party members" hardly makes the case you tried to make disagreeing with what TheSword wrote. The fact that Wizards have significantly fewer spell slots is a pretty critical factor to ignore when the spells themselves are also significantly worse and the spells/creatures/magic items are each being designed by wotc as if they still had the old spells old flexibility & old monsters.

In short, your point ignores the state of 5e itself & holds up bad design as some kind of gold star because it looks ok if you only look at an extremely narrow subset of the whole

@Ruin Explorer this video? He's not wrong & goodberry's 1hp healing berries can't take all of the blame for the combination of5e's rest mechanics once they are paired with phb197 getting rid of damage beyond zero.