List of Broken Powers

[twilsemail]

Temporary hit points last until you take a rest (short or extended). So, basically, each use of the power would last for an encounter at the most. If they avoid a rest in order to keep the temp hp, the cleric won't refresh the power.

The problem isn't the THP sticking around. The problem is the lack of sacrifice to gain what ammounts to surgeless healing each combat for free. A second after the end of a short rest, the Cleric uses the power (standard action... big whoop... we're not in combat) and those will stick around until the next combat, be it in the next room or 6 hours ride away. It's a guaranteed HS's worth of ablative armor.

 

[Pelenor]

The problem isn't the THP sticking around. The problem is the lack of sacrifice to gain what ammounts to surgeless healing each combat for free. A second after the end of a short rest, the Cleric uses the power (standard action... big whoop... we're not in combat) and those will stick around until the next combat, be it in the next room or 6 hours ride away. It's a guaranteed HS's worth of ablative armor.

I wonder if this is still true in light of the increased damage from MM3 and the latest damage errata? If the new damage stacks up well enough against this it may not be an issue. I haven't run the numbers to see though.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Surges of free hp or thp are a factor no matter how much damage the baddies do.

I agree that needs to be a daily.

 

[radja]

I'd just rule that anything that is not strenuous activity triggers a short rest, so you better stay damn busy after getting THP.. normal travel is not strenuous activity, so triggers a short rest after 5 minutes..

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I wonder if this is still true in light of the increased damage from MM3 and the latest damage errata? If the new damage stacks up well enough against this it may not be an issue. I haven't run the numbers to see though.

One surge for free per encounter is HUGE. The main issue is that a really hard encounter sure, the monsters can blow through that temphp pretty quick, but you're in little danger of suffering much or at all in more routine encounters. Often in an equal level encounter, even with the new damage numbers, maybe one or two party members take a surge or two of damage, or even less than one surge. If that is temphp the encounter was basically null and void, you can't attrition the PCs anymore, at least in terms of hit points.

I think the result is the DM is going to start inventing all kinds of environmental effects that do damage, ways to knock off an HS, piddly traps designed to chip away the temphp, etc. I don't think that improves the game.

 

[Aegeri]

I wonder if this is still true in light of the increased damage from MM3 and the latest damage errata? If the new damage stacks up well enough against this it may not be an issue. I haven't run the numbers to see though.

Not too well actually. Wraiths can tear that party apart (new, good MV wraiths that is). The new Dragons will have no problem handling this - in fact it might be the perfect powers to survive a low level black dragon encounter (it packs serious heat!). Actually, I can't really think of a lot of MM3 creatures that won't do enough damage to get around these powers anymore. Before with joke damage? I can't agree more. But now? Something like Iron to Glass on a MV Owlbear helps you survive: Not auto-win the encounter.

The only one that is an issue would be the temp HP power. That's because as Abdul has said, it's basically getting a free surge every combat. Then again if the party is in fireball formation to use it - then the encounter starts - they're going to be relying on initiative or suffer terribly from artillery. Not to mention there are always solutions now, especially at epic (where you would think this would be most potent). Dracoliches and Klurichirs both negate healing (the dracolich prevents gaining of temp HP as well) and there are monsters that ignore temporary HP straight up.

Not to mention traps and undead that inflict straight surge damage. But to be honest, the more I think of it the more I don't mind the power. It can actually be very hard to get PCs to have a longer adventuring day - due to complete lack of surges on the front line characters part - than to make them last a few encounters. I honestly don't know how I'd react to that tactic without having played with it a few sessions. I think it could actually save me some effort. Every campaign I've run post-MM3 I've had to have ways for PCs to regain surges - often quite a lot of them at that.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think the problem I have with that reason Aegeri is that if having a surge's worth of temphp is that valuable then what about the parties that don't have access to that power?

The other point was you cast it before combat, so there's no issue with 'fireball formation' or wasting a standard action, the thp is always there at the start of every fight, and there's no real incentive NOT to always use it that way. Again, if you're going to nerf that then why not just make it a daily and be done with it? I don't think the presence or lack of a single power should be having that large an impact on how every encounter plays out. It smacks of the problem with the original pre-errata BRV fighter. The DM could negate his advantages, but they were such huge advantages that basically every encounter was either built around foiling them or became trivial.

 

[Aegeri]

I think the problem I have with that reason Aegeri is that if having a surge's worth of temphp is that valuable then what about the parties that don't have access to that power?

The other point was you cast it before combat, so there's no issue with 'fireball formation' or wasting a standard action, the thp is always there at the start of every fight

Then you're attacked or run into trouble within 2 rounds (12 seconds) or so if it wearing off. Starting with a trap, skill challenge or similar that leads into a combat encounter. The power wears off and due to no short rest, the party cannot use it again and runs into trouble instantly. Alternatively, they need to bunch up and monsters that are invisible/hidden/lurking about jump them when they move together. A surprise round bombardment would deal a great amount of damage. I mean, it really isn't hard to deal with this simply through good encounter design, that to be completely frank I'm going to be doing anyway. I frequently like skill challenges and other difficulties before encounters. These can be up to 30 minutes in "real game time" in length - so there isn't going to be a short rest to recharge and keep spamming it during that anyway (Forcing the PCs to lose it before a combat anyway). That's not metagaming to spite the power, I do this anyway.

Again, if you're going to nerf that then why not just make it a daily and be done with it?

I don't have to nerf it though. I'm actually not really that worried by it in the first place.

I don't think the presence or lack of a single power should be having that large an impact on how every encounter plays out.

It really doesn't bother me because the damage monsters can do is ridiculous now. You can tear down a 250 HP Barbarian in a couple of rounds these days - not to mention brutalize the rest of the party while you're doing it. It's a pretty overpowered spell, but it doesn't bother me in the least because monster damage keeps up with it. They will, at most get maybe an extra encounter out of it and that depends if it even works.

but they were such huge advantages that basically every encounter was either built around foiling them or became trivial.

The problem here - plus I actually know this from experience - is that it's only going to buffer the onslaught now. It won't trivialize any encounter, because creatures hit hard enough. The original BRV fighter was in his prime during a period where 1d8+9 was considered "epic" damage. I wonder how he would stack up now, probably pretty well actually.

 

[The Human Target]

One of my players in running a pacifist cleric with both Astral Condemnation and Iron to Glass.

Both are great against solos, good against elites, and not really anything special against anyone else.

I think the ramped up damage for monsters makes them even less not broken than they were.

 

[Zaran]

I actually think Luring Strike (Swordmage lvl 1 At-Will) is broken the other way. Getting to shift 2 squares is no reason for it to be a (W) only power.

Another one power that is underpowered is Staggering Smite (Paladin Encounter lvl 3) The first level Divine Pursuit is better than this power as it targets Fortitude instead of AC and the Paladin gets to shift next to the target after the push.

I am starting to think that we won't see these powers being fixed anytime soon. I have an itching suspicion that WotC is no longer supporting anything that isn't Essentials. Everything we have seen lately has either been wholly Essentials or just been giving lip service to the cClasses.