rogueattorney
Adventurer
Yeah, this was within a year or two of the Beatles "Taxman." "One for you, nineteen for me," was not a figure of speech, and was the reason many of the British 60's rock stars went into "tax exile" at this time.
Lorraine Williams did... what?
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Yeah, this was within a year or two of the Beatles "Taxman." "One for you, nineteen for me," was not a figure of speech, and was the reason many of the British 60's rock stars went into "tax exile" at this time.
Ed_Laprade
Adventurer
Nice of him to have it corrected. But it still says that his grandfather 'originated' Buck Rogers. Which is still BS.
Ranger REG
Explorer
*went to get the rotten tomato he saved for just this occasion.*I liked Buck Rogers best when it was called Farscape.
Dire Bare
Legend
I liked Buck Rogers best when it was called Farscape.
Farscape was very much like a modern Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon, and was a large part of why that show was so freakin' awesome!
I love Buck, I love Flash, and I love John Crichton!!! Great stuff!
Orius
Hero
*went to get the rotten tomato he saved for just this occasion.*
Here, take this bushel I got.
I saw the show as like the old space operas, but it didn't make it appealing to me. I never could understand why people thought that show was creative when it was just another space opera after all the weirdness got stripped away.
Storm Raven
First Post
It was well-executed space opera, with weirdness added. That's what made it great.
Well, "total BS" is kind of harsh. It's fair to say Dille originated Buck in the form for which the character became most famous. He does deserve a lot of credit, and you could argue that he "originated" the Buck Rogers the public knew and loved. I wouldn't word the description of his role the way it's typically worded, but it's more like shorthand than a fabrication.
And, sure, the claim about the strip being the "birthplace" of robots, etc, is wrong, but it's easily chalked up to over-enthusiastic marketing copy, particularly given how Flint and the site manager reacted to the gaff about Lorraine's role in TSR's creation.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder
Absolutely. Buck Rogers did a lot to popularize SF tropes and conventions. Saying "that Buck Rogers stuff" was a way of referencing SF in general for a whole generation of people unfamiliar with the genre. That was a dismissive phrase, but it speaks to the influence of the IP when it comes to represent the whole genre for the public.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder
Ed_Laprade
Adventurer
I only said it was BS, not "total" BS.
And yeah, if you read it the right way its not an out-and-out lie. But I still roll my eyes at it. (Not that I think its worth getting all upset over.) As for the phrase "That Buck Rogers stuff," I heard it when I was growing up and it was always dismissive. Mostly the general public was always at least a decade behind what was being written in the magazines at any given time (and often more than one). The gap may have closed some in recent years, but I doubt it.Dille, IMO, had as much influences on the Buck Rogers franchise as Roy Thomas and Marvel had on Red Sonja.
I still personally believe that making a Buck Rogers RPG is inherently a SOUND financial business decision (not how much was produced though if the claims of massive overprinting was true).
How many RPG companies back in the mid 80s would've killed to have a well known IP basically free of charge?
I still personally believe that making a Buck Rogers RPG is inherently a SOUND financial business decision (not how much was produced though if the claims of massive overprinting was true).
How many RPG companies back in the mid 80s would've killed to have a well known IP basically free of charge?
(un)reason
Adventurer
That's one of the complaints. They didn't get it for any kind of reduced price, and the money that the Dilles got for licencing was taken based on the number of units printed rather than sold. It meant she got to take large amounts of money from TSR and into their personal trust regardless of the sales. Which is pretty morally equivalent to the modern issue of bankers being paid multimillion pound bonuses regardless of the performance of the company.
Ranger REG
Explorer
I've read (or at least attempted to read) First Fantasy Campaign. It's like a bunch of whimsical DM's notes, complete with squiggles of dragons attacking castles, and information presented in an ad hoc kind of manner.
It's not clear if Arneson and Judges Guild just wanted to publish his notes warts and all, wild and woolly with little editing and little attempt at "solid design". It might have said so in the preface, can't remember. But for the unprepared the book comes across as rather incoherent, and silly and in-jokey in a way that rarely sees publication (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). Although Gygax may have a conflict of interest, as you point out, he also may just have been being honest.
That said, I like Blackmoor, and dig Arneson's imagination and ideas (and choices of sources to plunder for derivative purposes) to a large degree. As a writer, though, if FFC was typical of him, his style was quite chaotic, and his rules design containing a lot of non sequiturs.
It makes me a bit sad to go back to change that last paragraph in past tense, just then. Thanks, Mr Arneson, for a lot of fun times, and I mean no disrespect.
Jib
First Post
Nope, she could not speak to the dead...
I'd say she was LE.
She did often treat the staff like they were a bunch of no-talent hacks...
I believe a certain designer at TSR came up with a collectable card game long before Magic hit the bricks and Lorraine shot the idea down. Later when Magic was going hog wild she came to the design team and said "So where is OUR collectable card game?"
Lots of great games were born from the creative minds at TSR in the late 80's and 90's. Lorraine hated the industry and never understood it. She would have been better off staying out of the mix and leaving the games to the gamers.
JustKim
First Post
Based on the Spellfire card game that TSR offered in competition to Magic, I think it's safe to say they were completely surprised and not prepared to deal with the card game fad. Spellfire was an extremely crude game that became largely unplayable within the first few expansions as the nature of the basic numbers game really restricted the kind of cards that could be released to just bigger and bigger numbers.
If TSR really had a CCG on the burner, I think their offering would have been a little more impressive. They did release another one, Blood War, which was quite different. But it was just as inelegant as most of the bandwagon CCG fare of the day, if not quite as bad as Spellfire.
So no, I don't believe TSR was working on a CCG, and I don't believe Lorraine was the only one at TSR without a finger on the pulse of the industry. The entire company had stopped paying attention to its customers and the direction of gaming, and ceased to be relevant. That took a united front of ignorance.
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