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Maiden of Pain - Thoughts?
- Thread starter evildmguy
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Vraille Darkfang
First Post
Got it.
Began Reading It.
Got so disgusted I had to quit.
Really, really, really, disliked it.
I'll try to pick it up tonight & flip through it to give a better reason WHY I hated it.
It wasn't the writing that I had problems with. It was the idoicy of the characters involved. I mean, really, really stupid.
Order of the Stick/Nodwick/Dork Tower Level of Stupidity.
Really, had the author taken a break from the action to go to a DM asking "Are you sure you want to do that?" It would have made the book a lot better.
I'll post tonight some of the scenes I had a problem with.
Began Reading It.
Got so disgusted I had to quit.
Really, really, really, disliked it.
I'll try to pick it up tonight & flip through it to give a better reason WHY I hated it.
It wasn't the writing that I had problems with. It was the idoicy of the characters involved. I mean, really, really stupid.
Order of the Stick/Nodwick/Dork Tower Level of Stupidity.
Really, had the author taken a break from the action to go to a DM asking "Are you sure you want to do that?" It would have made the book a lot better.
I'll post tonight some of the scenes I had a problem with.
I haven't read it, but I did happen upon the authors blog at www.kameronmf.com. Sounds like the reviews have not been kind.
Viking Bastard
Adventurer
What is this?
Vraille Darkfang
First Post
Here are 2 of the scenes that stood out.
1. She's a priestess of Lovitar. She gets assigned to be the nanny of a spoiled rich girl in a distant land.
She's a Thayvian. She's going to a land where any Arcane Spellcasters are BURNED AT THE STAKE.
So, she takes the brat to the market, brat tries to run away. When she catches up, brat yells 'Witch'. So a whole bunch of city guard start approaching her. What does she, a tattoed stanger that closely resemblems a Red Wizard & is outnumberd a dozen to one & is surrounded by so many people she can't run away. She attacks the city guard. Starts getting her butt handed to her, so decides to cast a spell (she knew about the whole wizards burned at stake thing). What happens whe city guard sees her try to cast a spell?
You got it, beats her sensless, throws her in jail, and now she's going to be executed as a witch. The whole scene was so unbelievable. I mean, if the author had broken his narrative to show a Dork Tower comic of Igor & Matt gaming & Matt telling him:
"So, you are surronded by the city guard, they want you to surrender, what do you do?"
"I cast Bull's Strength & Attack! Huzzah!"
"Um, remember, they kill wizards on sight here."
"But I'm casting a PREISTLY Spell, it's completly different."
"You think these 1st level warriors have enough ranks in spellcraft to tell the difference?"
End of 'Combat'
"Matt, that was sooo unfair, there was no way I could win that battle!"
(Sound of Matt's head banging repeatedly into the table).
Later, some old guy charges a bunch of fully armed city guard with a stick. They kill him. It's supposed to show how 'evil' the city guard is, but it comes off as just showing how stupid the guy is.
This is how the book plays out. Well well-written, it is badly plotted. In order for the author to get from the beginning of the book to his desired end, he has to make the characters do some really stupid & inconsitent things on a pretty regular basis.
As an ironic satire of how Hack & Slahers handle a Story Heavy Campaign, it could have been quite funny. As a work of Fantasy, it leaves much to be desired.
1. She's a priestess of Lovitar. She gets assigned to be the nanny of a spoiled rich girl in a distant land.
She's a Thayvian. She's going to a land where any Arcane Spellcasters are BURNED AT THE STAKE.
So, she takes the brat to the market, brat tries to run away. When she catches up, brat yells 'Witch'. So a whole bunch of city guard start approaching her. What does she, a tattoed stanger that closely resemblems a Red Wizard & is outnumberd a dozen to one & is surrounded by so many people she can't run away. She attacks the city guard. Starts getting her butt handed to her, so decides to cast a spell (she knew about the whole wizards burned at stake thing). What happens whe city guard sees her try to cast a spell?
You got it, beats her sensless, throws her in jail, and now she's going to be executed as a witch. The whole scene was so unbelievable. I mean, if the author had broken his narrative to show a Dork Tower comic of Igor & Matt gaming & Matt telling him:
"So, you are surronded by the city guard, they want you to surrender, what do you do?"
"I cast Bull's Strength & Attack! Huzzah!"
"Um, remember, they kill wizards on sight here."
"But I'm casting a PREISTLY Spell, it's completly different."
"You think these 1st level warriors have enough ranks in spellcraft to tell the difference?"
End of 'Combat'
"Matt, that was sooo unfair, there was no way I could win that battle!"
(Sound of Matt's head banging repeatedly into the table).
Later, some old guy charges a bunch of fully armed city guard with a stick. They kill him. It's supposed to show how 'evil' the city guard is, but it comes off as just showing how stupid the guy is.
This is how the book plays out. Well well-written, it is badly plotted. In order for the author to get from the beginning of the book to his desired end, he has to make the characters do some really stupid & inconsitent things on a pretty regular basis.
As an ironic satire of how Hack & Slahers handle a Story Heavy Campaign, it could have been quite funny. As a work of Fantasy, it leaves much to be desired.
Vraille Darkfang
First Post
evildmguy
Explorer
I suppose I was being rude when I posted this. I didn't like it and wanted to post that but also wanted to follow the "if you can't say something good rule . . . " and figured someone else would do it. So, sorry about that.
However, Vraille's comments have helped me figure it out.
The book IS well written. It is also badly plotted. I had a tough time with the characters. I think part of the problem is the (FR) DND novels that I have read recently (and I am not currently playing any d20) have been EXCELLENT! It really felt as if the Rogues series, the Erevis Cale Books, the Scions of Arrabar books and some others, were well written and characterized. The books were very good. So, I had high hopes for this book and it was those high hopes that weren't met.
The book was well written, as I understand such things. It set up a "promise" to the readers. It followed through on that promise. While their could have been some better editing, the book reads well.
However
I didn't think the characters acted in anywhere near "smart" as they should have been. I didn't get a sense of continuity from the plot. At times, it felt as if a random event chart helped to figure what was to come next. I thought that the ending left too much unanswered with the characters. I suppose it wasn't relevant to the "promise" but it would have been nice to get a much better sense of what the main characters were going to do after this. It would have been nice to get a better sense of how these fit in with the back story and how well it worked for that character as well.
I guess I also expect some sense of morality or lesson in my books, either for the reader or for one of the main characters. However, this book is lacking that. There is no sense of what is learned by the main characters. There is only one character that might have had a "crisis point" and was changed. However, the character wasn't emphasized and so any lesson there has been lost. The rest of the characters had some bad things happen to them but I didn't get a sense that it was "big" for any of them. And maybe that's its problem. It stops focusing on the characters after it introduces them and instead looks at the action, such that there is not much happening on a personal level. That's probably why I didn't care what happened to the characters.
I guess I would give it a C-. I finished the book, and some things I liked. I liked seeing Loviatans used in a non evil light. It was a great way to bring some shades of grey to the black and white that is DND. (As most of these new novels have been doing.) Overall, though, I had a bad taste in my mouth after reading it almost to the point of deciding to avoid the author until I see a good review of him.
I guess I need to find that line between critiquing and criticizing to be able to speak my mind.
Have a good one! Take care!
edg
However, Vraille's comments have helped me figure it out.
The book IS well written. It is also badly plotted. I had a tough time with the characters. I think part of the problem is the (FR) DND novels that I have read recently (and I am not currently playing any d20) have been EXCELLENT! It really felt as if the Rogues series, the Erevis Cale Books, the Scions of Arrabar books and some others, were well written and characterized. The books were very good. So, I had high hopes for this book and it was those high hopes that weren't met.
The book was well written, as I understand such things. It set up a "promise" to the readers. It followed through on that promise. While their could have been some better editing, the book reads well.
However
I didn't think the characters acted in anywhere near "smart" as they should have been. I didn't get a sense of continuity from the plot. At times, it felt as if a random event chart helped to figure what was to come next. I thought that the ending left too much unanswered with the characters. I suppose it wasn't relevant to the "promise" but it would have been nice to get a much better sense of what the main characters were going to do after this. It would have been nice to get a better sense of how these fit in with the back story and how well it worked for that character as well.
I guess I also expect some sense of morality or lesson in my books, either for the reader or for one of the main characters. However, this book is lacking that. There is no sense of what is learned by the main characters. There is only one character that might have had a "crisis point" and was changed. However, the character wasn't emphasized and so any lesson there has been lost. The rest of the characters had some bad things happen to them but I didn't get a sense that it was "big" for any of them. And maybe that's its problem. It stops focusing on the characters after it introduces them and instead looks at the action, such that there is not much happening on a personal level. That's probably why I didn't care what happened to the characters.
I guess I would give it a C-. I finished the book, and some things I liked. I liked seeing Loviatans used in a non evil light. It was a great way to bring some shades of grey to the black and white that is DND. (As most of these new novels have been doing.) Overall, though, I had a bad taste in my mouth after reading it almost to the point of deciding to avoid the author until I see a good review of him.
I guess I need to find that line between critiquing and criticizing to be able to speak my mind.
Have a good one! Take care!
edg
evildmguy
Explorer
Rude or not, I just posted this review at Amazon
It felt like a new writer's book, which it is, and pulls the overall series down more than help it
The book reads well, except for a few editing errors, as I understand such things. It set up a "promise" to the readers. It followed through on that promise. While there could have been some better editing, the book reads well.
I also liked seeing Loviatans, a "evil" group, used in a non evil light. It was a great way to bring some shades of grey to the black and white that is DND. There were some very good ideas that I thought were handled well within the scope of the book.
However
I didn't think the characters acted anywhere near as smart as they should have been. At one point, a character uses a spell, which is against the law, knowing that the people around can't tell it isn't arcane and so gets in trouble. It didn't seem to mesh with my idea of the character, because besides not being smart, it was against common sense as well. I found it laughable when, in DND game terms, a second level spell (out of nine levels) is called "powerful". I think the author should have re-worked it to make it more personal to that character and why it was powerful to them. In such a context, it would have made sense. As it was written, it didn't make sense that it was called powerful.
In general, there is not a lot of focus on the characters but instead the action that is propelling the characters forward. That's okay in movies, which are more propelled by action. For my books, though, I want to understand better the characters and what they are going through. The priestess, on whom the book is named, is forced into situation after situation and reacts for most of the book. When she is finally able to make a choice, instead of being a big denouement for the character, it feels trivial and assumed that she will make that decision, rather than a critical point for her. None of the characters have a big, life altering decision to make, and I think a story should be about those big life moments. They are all propelled along by the events around them, never seeming to ask why these things are happening. It seems unlikely that the characters would do that, yet they do.
I guess I expect some sense of morality or lesson in my books, either for the reader or for one of the main characters. However, this book is lacking that. There is no sense of what is learned by the main characters. There is only one character that might have had a "crisis point" and was changed. However, the character wasn't emphasized nor shown how they changed and so any lesson there has been lost. The rest of the characters had some bad things happen to them but I didn't get a sense that it was "big" for any of them.
And maybe that's its problem. The book stops focusing on the characters after it introduces them and instead looks at the action, such that there is not much happening on a personal level. That's probably why I didn't care what happened to the characters. I also don't think it worked. I think focusing on the action is what created the lack of interest in the characters as well as the stereotypes and it didn't work for me.
I thought that the ending left too much unanswered with the characters. I suppose it wasn't relevant to the "promise" but it would have been nice to get a much better sense of what the main characters were going to do after these events. It would have been nice to get a better sense of how these fit in with the back story and how well it worked for that character as well.
Overall, I had a bad taste in my mouth after reading it almost to the point of deciding to avoid the author until I see a good review of him. I would give it a D+.
jdg
It felt like a new writer's book, which it is, and pulls the overall series down more than help it
The book reads well, except for a few editing errors, as I understand such things. It set up a "promise" to the readers. It followed through on that promise. While there could have been some better editing, the book reads well.
I also liked seeing Loviatans, a "evil" group, used in a non evil light. It was a great way to bring some shades of grey to the black and white that is DND. There were some very good ideas that I thought were handled well within the scope of the book.
However
I didn't think the characters acted anywhere near as smart as they should have been. At one point, a character uses a spell, which is against the law, knowing that the people around can't tell it isn't arcane and so gets in trouble. It didn't seem to mesh with my idea of the character, because besides not being smart, it was against common sense as well. I found it laughable when, in DND game terms, a second level spell (out of nine levels) is called "powerful". I think the author should have re-worked it to make it more personal to that character and why it was powerful to them. In such a context, it would have made sense. As it was written, it didn't make sense that it was called powerful.
In general, there is not a lot of focus on the characters but instead the action that is propelling the characters forward. That's okay in movies, which are more propelled by action. For my books, though, I want to understand better the characters and what they are going through. The priestess, on whom the book is named, is forced into situation after situation and reacts for most of the book. When she is finally able to make a choice, instead of being a big denouement for the character, it feels trivial and assumed that she will make that decision, rather than a critical point for her. None of the characters have a big, life altering decision to make, and I think a story should be about those big life moments. They are all propelled along by the events around them, never seeming to ask why these things are happening. It seems unlikely that the characters would do that, yet they do.
I guess I expect some sense of morality or lesson in my books, either for the reader or for one of the main characters. However, this book is lacking that. There is no sense of what is learned by the main characters. There is only one character that might have had a "crisis point" and was changed. However, the character wasn't emphasized nor shown how they changed and so any lesson there has been lost. The rest of the characters had some bad things happen to them but I didn't get a sense that it was "big" for any of them.
And maybe that's its problem. The book stops focusing on the characters after it introduces them and instead looks at the action, such that there is not much happening on a personal level. That's probably why I didn't care what happened to the characters. I also don't think it worked. I think focusing on the action is what created the lack of interest in the characters as well as the stereotypes and it didn't work for me.
I thought that the ending left too much unanswered with the characters. I suppose it wasn't relevant to the "promise" but it would have been nice to get a much better sense of what the main characters were going to do after these events. It would have been nice to get a better sense of how these fit in with the back story and how well it worked for that character as well.
Overall, I had a bad taste in my mouth after reading it almost to the point of deciding to avoid the author until I see a good review of him. I would give it a D+.
jdg
ShrinkyLink
First Post
I feel sorry for the author. There was a huge cattle call from WOTC a couple of years ago to write Maiden Of Pain that had fanboys pounding keyboards nationwide. The guy seemed over the moon for having won, and who can blame him?
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