D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[tetrasodium]

Can we truly say spells are DM-proof?

Think about, for a second, a DM that really knows the system and really dislikes your caster character. Any spell that he attempts to cast can easily and RAW be disrupted/cancelled just from the nature of the spell and its restrictions. The DM just has to have his heart set on telling you "no," no matter what.

That goes double when the casting mechanics & spells themselves take just about every route they can to self limit, monsters are built to counter casters , slot progression slows faster & faster the higher you get, & wotc is still making content as if casters were running around with their 2e/3.x spells all in a combined overcorrection against the problems of past editions.

 

[ECMO3]

The damage numbers you are referencing seem t be suggesting that the champion or the hexblade will be doing a point less than the there, that's j\so incorrect it doesn't relly matter which. Here's the math.

Champion will be doing 1d10+5+1+10 (5.5+5*+1+10=26.5) for each attack. EB from the hexblade will be doing 1d10+5 (5.5+5=10.5). They each get to attack the same number of times aside from the almost unplayed 17-19 level range. The hexblade is doing way more than a "point" less damage. The champion can miss 2 out of every 3 attacks and still outdamage the hexblade with EV if it's missing an average of even a single attack every 3. From 1-4 it's still true but needs different mods. On the bolded but, look back at @Flamestrike's post.... the champion has both feats and a +1 weapon of each. Ranged attacks with a bow in melee & ranged spell attacks with EB in melee both suffer the same disadvantage so it would be silly to throw the comparison by adding it to one but not the other.

To be clear I said "you are probably looking at 2 points extra damage per attack effectively, compared to someone using the same weapon without the feats". Here is the actual numbers to back that up:

Comparison at 4th level:
A 4th level Champion with 16 strength and GWM wielding a greatsword will average 6.7 DPR against a 15AC foe if he takes +10 damage and will average 6.2 DPR if he does not take +10 damage

A 4th level Champion with an 18 strength and no GWM and a greatsword will average 7.2 DPR against a 15AC foe.

A 4th level AB blastlock with a 18 Charisma will average 6.0 DPR against a 15AC foe

Difference: GWM is 1 point worse than a comparable fighter and 0.7 points better than a blaster warlock.

Comparison at 6th level:
A 6th level Champion with 18 strength and GWM wielding a greatsword will average 9.1 DPA (Damage Per Attack) against a 15AC foe if he takes +10 damage and will average 7.9 DPA if he does not take +10 damage.

A 6th level Champion with an 20 strength and no GWM and a greatsword will average 9.1 DPA against a 15AC foe.

A 6th level AB blastlock with a 18 Charisma will average 6.5 Damage Per Ray against a 15AC foe.

Difference: GWM no difference for a comparable fighter, 2.6 damage per attack better than a blaster warlock.

Comparison at 8th level:
A 8th level Champion with 20 strength and GWM wielding a greatsword will average 10.6 DPA against a 15AC foe if he takes +10 damage and will average 9.1 DPA if he does not take +10 damage.

A 8th level Champion with an 20 strength and no GWM and a greatsword will average 9.1DPA against a 15AC foe.

A 8th level AB blastlock with a 20 Charisma will average 7.6 Damage Per Ray against a 15 AC foe.

Difference: GWM 1.5 points better than a comparable fighter and 3 points better than a blaster

Comparison at 11th level
A 8th level Champion with 20 strength and GWM wielding a greatsword will average 11.7 DPA against a 15AC foe if he takes +10 damage and will average 9.7 DPA if he does not take +10 damage.

A 8th level Champion with an 20 strength and no GWM and a greatsword will average 9.7 DPA against a 15AC foe.

A 6th level AB blastlock with a 20 Charisma will average 8.1 Damage Per Ray against a 15 AC foe.

Difference: GWM 2 points better than comparable fighter and 3.6 points per attack better than a blaster

Note: That includes the Champion bonus for critical hits, it does NOT include the GWM bonus action attack on a critical hit/kill, any fighting style adjustment or Hex. That is also against a 15AC foe, raising the AC will reduce those differences and turn them upside down at very high levels. The example I gave above is for a greatsword.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Can we truly say spells are DM-proof?

Think about, for a second, a DM that really knows the system and really dislikes your caster character. Any spell that he attempts to cast can easily and RAW be disrupted/cancelled just from the nature of the spell and its restrictions. The DM just has to have his heart set on telling you "no," no matter what.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. I haven't asserted either way.

I'm stating that "..this list is not exhaustive" is not official mechanical support for every potential action omitted from that list, unless maybe you're Yogi Berra ("Trust me. I meant every single word I didn't say")

It sure as hell isn't the same as a 78 page published spell list.

Acting like these are even remotely equivalent is absurd.

 

[Asisreo]

I don't know what point you're trying to make. I haven't asserted either way.

I'm stating that "..this list is not exhaustive" is not official mechanical support for every potential action omitted from that list, unless maybe you're Yogi Berra ("Trust me. I meant every single word I didn't say")

It sure as hell isn't the same as a 78 page published spell list.

Acting like these are even remotely equivalent is absurd.

Okay, so when it comes to "doing anything," a pretty all-encompassing explanation is given in the paragraph here:

Strength measures bodily power, athletic training, and the extent to which you can exert raw physical force.

Strength Checks​

A Strength check can model any attempt to lift, push, pull, or break something, to force your body through a space, or to otherwise apply brute force to a situation.

But if that's too broad, they do give examples without DC's attached:

Other Strength Checks​

The DM might also call for a Strength check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:

• Force open a stuck, locked, or barred door
• Break free of bonds
• Push through a tunnel that is too small
• Hang on to a wagon while being dragged behind it
• Tip over a statue
• Keep a boulder from rolling

So at the very least, there's some idea of what Strength, and therefore Martials, should be capable of doing at some point.

Need more refined DCs? Well, they exist but they're a bit scattered and need context clues.

• The DC for breaking Manacles are 20
• The DC for freeing yourself from a Bear Trap is 13
• The DC for prying open a spring-loaded trap door to a pit is 20
• The DC for stopping a rolling sphere going roughly 7mph is 20
• The DC for bursting out of chains is 20
• The DC for bursting out of rope is 17

I haven't checked exactly everything, but this could be a good basis. Clearly, 20 is a good DC when all else fails.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Okay, so when it comes to "doing anything," a pretty all-encompassing explanation is given in the paragraph here:



But if that's too broad, they do give examples without DC's attached:



So at the very least, there's some idea of what Strength, and therefore Martials, should be capable of doing at some point.

Need more refined DCs? Well, they exist but they're a bit scattered and need context clues.

• The DC for breaking Manacles are 20
• The DC for freeing yourself from a Bear Trap is 13
• The DC for prying open a spring-loaded trap door to a pit is 20
• The DC for stopping a rolling sphere going roughly 7mph is 20
• The DC for bursting out of chains is 20
• The DC for bursting out of rope is 17

I haven't checked exactly everything, but this could be a good basis. Clearly, 20 is a good DC when all else fails.

4 of these actions specifically relate to breaking restraints..

1 of these actions is...opening a door?

And 1 of these is so specific and niche I'm not sure how to classify it.

These are your examples of what the designers meant for strong martial characters to be doing with their skills?? Getting captured and opening doors??

..On second thought, that sounds about right.

 

[tetrasodium]

4 of these actions specifically relate to breaking restraints..

1 of these actions is...opening a door?

And 1 of these is so specific and niche I'm not sure how to classify it.

These are your examples of what the designers meant for strong martial characters to be doing??

Here's another one from a dmg section on chases "Characters being chased through a forest by bugbears might spot a wasp nest and slow down long enough to attack the nest or throw rocks at it, thus creating an obstacle for their pursuers.".


Pitons(for climbing) are 5cp, included along with rope in the burglars & dungeoneers pack. 5e may not have bothered to explain what they do or how to use them (not that I can find)

Spoiler: but here is what pitons used to do

Making Your Own Handholds and Footholds:
You can make your own handholds and footholds by pounding pitons into a wall. Doing so takes 1 minute per piton, and one piton is needed per 3 feet of distance. As with any surface that offers handholds and footholds, a wall with pitons in it has a DC of 15. In the same way, a climber with a handaxe or similar implement can cut handholds in an ice wall. Catching Yourself When Falling: It’s practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling. Make a Climb check (DC = wall’sDC + 20) to do so. It’s much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope’s DC + 10).

Don't forget climber's kits either

Spoiler

Climber’s Kit. A climber’s kit includes special pitons,
boot tips, gloves, and a harness. You can use the
climber’s kit as an action to anchor yourself; when you
do, you can’t fall m ore than 25 feet from the point where
you anchored yourself, and you can't climb m ore than 25
feet away from that point without undoing the anchor.
-5e phb151

Even if not proficient your still going to be adding strength or dex to the roll

Here are several more things from xge that are very much not just breaking things

Spoiler: alchemist supplies

Investigation. When you inspect an area for clues,
proficiency with alchemist’s supplies grants additional
insight into any chemicals or other substances that
might have been used in the area.
Alchemical Crafting. You can use this tool proficiency
to create alchemical items. A character can spend
money to collect raw materials, which weigh 1 pound
for every 50 gp spent. The DM can allow a character to
make a check using the indicated skill with advantage.
As part of a long rest, you can use alchemist’s supplies
to make one dose of acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin,
oil, perfume, or soap. Subtract half the value of the cre-
ated item from the total gp worth of raw materials you
are carrying.
Activity DC
Create a puffofthick smoke 10
Identify a poison 1O
Identify a substance 15
Start a fire 15
Neutralize acid 20

Spoiler: Brewers Supplies

History. Proficiency with brewer’s supplies gives
you additional insight on Intelligence (History) checks
concerning events that involve alcohol as a signifi-
cant element.
Medicine. This tool proficiency grants additional
insight when you treat anyone suffering from alcohol
poisoning or when you can use alcohol to dull pain.
Persuasion. A stiff drink can help soften the hardest
heart. Your proficiency with brewer’s supplies can help
you ply someone with drink, giving them just enough
alcohol to mellow their mood.
Potable Water. Your knowledge of brewing enables
you to purify water that would otherwise be undrink—
able. As part of a long rest, you can purify up to 6 gal-
lons of water, or 1 gallon as part of a short rest.
BREWER'S SUPPLIES
Activity DC
Detect poison or impurities in a drink 10
Identify alcohol 15
Ignore effects ofalcohol 20

Spoiler: Calligrapher's supplies

replicate its style and design.
Components. Calligrapher’s supplies include ink, a
dozen sheets of parchment, and three quills.
Arcana. Although calligraphy is of little help in deci—
phering the content of magical writings, proficiency with
these supplies can aid in identifying who wrote a script
of a magical nature.
History. This tool proficiency can augment the
benefit of successful checks made to analyze or inves-
tigate ancient writings, scrolls, or other texts, includ—
ing runes etched in stone or messages in frescoes or
other displays.
Decipher Treasure Map. This tool proficiency grants
you expertise in examining maps. You can make an
Intelligence check to determine a map's age, whether a i
map includes any hidden messages, or similar facts.
Activity DC
Identify writer of nonmagical script 10
Determine writer's state ofmind 15
Spot forged text 15
Forge a signature 20

Spoiler: Carpenter's tools

History. This tool proficiency aids you in identifying
the use and the origin of wooden buildings and other
large wooden objects.
Investigation. You gain additional insight when in-
specting areas within wooden structures, because you
know tricks of construction that can conceal areas from

discovery.

Perception. You can spot irregularities in wooden
walls or floors, making it easier to find trap doors and
secret passages.
Stealth. You can quickly assess the weak spots in a
wooden floor, making it easier to avoid the places that
creak and groan when they’re stepped on.
Fortify. With 1 minute of work and raw materials,
you can make a door or window harder to force open.
Increase the DC needed to open it by 5.
Temporary Shelter. As part of a long rest, you can
construct a lean—to or a similar shelter to keep your
group dry and in the shade for the duration of the rest.
Because it was fashioned quickly from whatever wood
was available, the shelter collapses 1d3 days after being
assembled.
Activity DC
Build a simple wooden structure 10
Design a complex wooden structure 15
Find a weak point in a wooden wall 15
Pry apart a door 20

Spoiler: Cartographer's tools

Arcana, History, Religion. You can use your knowl—
edge of maps and locations to unearth more detailed
information when you use these skills. For instance, you
might spot hidden messages in a map, identify when the
map was made to determine if geographical features
have changed since then, and so forth.
Nature. Your familiarity with physical geography
makes it easier for you to answer questions or solve is-
sues relating to the terrain around you.
Survival. Your understanding of geography makes it
easier to find paths to civilization, to predict areas where
villages or towns might be found, and to avoid becom-
ing lost. You have studied so many maps that common
patterns, such as how trade routes evolve and where
settlements arise in relation to geographic locations, are
familiar to you.
Craft a Map. While traveling, you can draw a map as
you go in addition to engaging in other activity.

Activity DC
Determine a map's age and origin 10
Estimate direction and distance to a landmark 15
Discern that a map is fake 15
Fill in a missing part ofa map 20

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Arcana, History. Your knowledge of shoes aids you in
identifying the magical properties of enchanted boots or
the history of such items.
Investigation. Footwear holds a surprising number
of secrets. You can learn where someone has recently
visited by examining the wear and the dirt that has ac-
cumulated on their shoes. Your experience in repairing
shoes makes it easier for you to identify where damage
might come from.
Maintain Shoes. As part of a long rest, you can repair
your companions‘ shoes. For the next 24 hours, up to six
creatures of your choice who wear shoes you worked on
can travel up to 10 hours a day without making saving
throws to avoid exhaustion.
Craft Hidden Compartment. With 8 hours of work,
you can add a hidden compartment to a pair of shoes.
The compartment can hold an object up to 3 inches long
and 1 inch wide and deep. You make an Intelligence
check using your tool proficiency to determine the In—
telligence (Investigation) check DC needed to find the
compartment.

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Activity DC
Determine a shoe’s age and origin 10
Find a hidden compartment in a boot heel 15

Spoiler: Cook's Utensils

History. Your knowledge of cooking techniques al—
lows you to assess the social patterns involved in a cul—
ture’s eating habits.
Medicine. When administering treatment, you can
transform medicine that is bitter or sour into a pleasing
concoction.
Survival. When foraging for food, you can make do
with ingredients you scavenge that others would be un-
able to transform into nourishing meals.
Prepare Meals. As part of a short rest, you can pre—
pare a tasty meal that helps your companions regain
their strength. You and up to five creatures of your
choice regain 1 extra hit point per Hit Die spent during
a short rest, provided you have access to your cook’s
utensils and sufficient food.
Activity DC
Create a typical meal 10
Duplicate a meal 10
Spot poison or impurities in food 15
Create a gourmet meal 15

Spoiler: Diguise Kit

Intimidation. The right disguise can make you look
more fearsome, whether you want to scare someone
away by posing as a plague victim or intimidate a gang
of thugs by taking the appearance of a bully.
Performance. A cunning disguise can enhance an au—
dience's enjoyment of a performance, provided the dis-
guise is properly designed to evoke the desired reaction.
Persuasion. Folk tend to trust a person in uniform. If
you disguise yourself as an authority figure, your efforts
to persuade others are often more effective.
Create Disguise. As part of a long rest, you can
create a disguise. It takes you 1 minute to don such a
disguise once you have created it. You can carry only
one such disguise on you at a time without drawing
undue attention, unless you have a bag ofholding or
a similar method to keep them hidden. Each disguise
weighs 1 pound.
At other times, it takes 10 minutes to craft a disguise
that involves moderate changes to your appearance,
and 30 minutes for one that requires more exten-
sive changes.
Activity DC
Cover injuries or distinguishing marks 10
Spot a disguise being used by someone else l5
Copy a humanoid’s appearance 20

Spoiler: Forgery Kit

Deception. A well-crafted forgery, such as papers pro-
claiming you to be a noble or a writ that grants you safe
passage, can lend credence to a lie.
History. A forgery kit combined with your knowledge
of history improves your ability to create fake historical
documents or to tell if an old document is authentic.
Investigation. When you examine objects. proficiency
with a forgery kit is useful for determining how an ob-
ject was made and whether it is genuine.
Other Tools. Knowledge of other tools makes your
forgeries that much more believable. For example, you
could combine proficiency with a forgery kit and profi—
ciency with cartographer’s tools to make a fake map.
Quick Fake. As part of a short rest, you can produce
a forged document no more than one page in length. As
part of a long rest, you can produce a document that is
up to four pages long. Your Intelligence check using a
forgery kit determines the DC for someone else’s Intelli—
gence (Investigation) check to spot the fake.
Activity DC
Mimic handwriting 15
Duplicate a wax seal 20

Spoiler: Gaming Set

History. Your mastery of a game includes knowledge
of its history, as well as of important events it was con«
nected to or prominent historical figures involved with it.
Insight. Playing games with someone is a good way to
gain understanding of their personality, granting you a
better ability to discern their lies from their truths and
read their mood.
Sleight of 'Hand. Sleight of Hand is a useful skill for
cheating at a game, as it allows you to swap pieces,
palm cards, or alter a die roll. Alternatively, engrossing
a target in a game by manipulating the components with
dexterous movements is a great distraction for a pick-
pocketing attempt.
Activity DC
Catch a player cheating 15
Gain insight into an opponent’s personality 15

That goes on for another 4 pages. Stop blaming casters for what is either a hostile GM, lack of creativity in applying abilities, or the simple problem that comes from having options at your disposal that regularly fail to apply to the current situation... Casters feel all of those and face the added joy of wotc still fighting the extremes of 2e/3.x as if they are still present

 

[Asisreo]

4 of these actions specifically relate to breaking restraints..

Its a common trope.

While not directly related to ability checks, they can also break through a 6-inch stone wall within 6 seconds, escaping a T-rex's mouth is DC 17, and destroying metal objects is DC 15.

So there's some cool stuff codified if you'd like to dig around the system. Taking these examples in account should make comparing different feats a bit easier.

 

[Mort]

Here's another one from a dmg section on chases "Characters being chased through a forest by bugbears might spot a wasp nest and slow down long enough to attack the nest or throw rocks at it, thus creating an obstacle for their pursuers.".


Pitons(for climbing) are 5cp, included along with rope in the burglars & dungeoneers pack. 5e may not have bothered to explain what they do or how to use them (not that I can find)

Spoiler: but here is what pitons used to do

Making Your Own Handholds and Footholds:
You can make your own handholds and footholds by pounding pitons into a wall. Doing so takes 1 minute per piton, and one piton is needed per 3 feet of distance. As with any surface that offers handholds and footholds, a wall with pitons in it has a DC of 15. In the same way, a climber with a handaxe or similar implement can cut handholds in an ice wall. Catching Yourself When Falling: It’s practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling. Make a Climb check (DC = wall’sDC + 20) to do so. It’s much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope’s DC + 10).

Don't forget climber's kits either

Spoiler

Climber’s Kit. A climber’s kit includes special pitons,
boot tips, gloves, and a harness. You can use the
climber’s kit as an action to anchor yourself; when you
do, you can’t fall m ore than 25 feet from the point where
you anchored yourself, and you can't climb m ore than 25
feet away from that point without undoing the anchor.
-5e phb151

Even if not proficient your still going to be adding strength or dex to the roll

Here are several more things from xge that are very much not just breaking things

Spoiler: alchemist supplies

Investigation. When you inspect an area for clues,
proficiency with alchemist’s supplies grants additional
insight into any chemicals or other substances that
might have been used in the area.
Alchemical Crafting. You can use this tool proficiency
to create alchemical items. A character can spend
money to collect raw materials, which weigh 1 pound
for every 50 gp spent. The DM can allow a character to
make a check using the indicated skill with advantage.
As part of a long rest, you can use alchemist’s supplies
to make one dose of acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin,
oil, perfume, or soap. Subtract half the value of the cre-
ated item from the total gp worth of raw materials you
are carrying.
Activity DC
Create a puffofthick smoke 10
Identify a poison 1O
Identify a substance 15
Start a fire 15
Neutralize acid 20

Spoiler: Brewers Supplies

History. Proficiency with brewer’s supplies gives
you additional insight on Intelligence (History) checks
concerning events that involve alcohol as a signifi-
cant element.
Medicine. This tool proficiency grants additional
insight when you treat anyone suffering from alcohol
poisoning or when you can use alcohol to dull pain.
Persuasion. A stiff drink can help soften the hardest
heart. Your proficiency with brewer’s supplies can help
you ply someone with drink, giving them just enough
alcohol to mellow their mood.
Potable Water. Your knowledge of brewing enables
you to purify water that would otherwise be undrink—
able. As part of a long rest, you can purify up to 6 gal-
lons of water, or 1 gallon as part of a short rest.
BREWER'S SUPPLIES
Activity DC
Detect poison or impurities in a drink 10
Identify alcohol 15
Ignore effects ofalcohol 20

Spoiler: Calligrapher's supplies

replicate its style and design.
Components. Calligrapher’s supplies include ink, a
dozen sheets of parchment, and three quills.
Arcana. Although calligraphy is of little help in deci—
phering the content of magical writings, proficiency with
these supplies can aid in identifying who wrote a script
of a magical nature.
History. This tool proficiency can augment the
benefit of successful checks made to analyze or inves-
tigate ancient writings, scrolls, or other texts, includ—
ing runes etched in stone or messages in frescoes or
other displays.
Decipher Treasure Map. This tool proficiency grants
you expertise in examining maps. You can make an
Intelligence check to determine a map's age, whether a i
map includes any hidden messages, or similar facts.
Activity DC
Identify writer of nonmagical script 10
Determine writer's state ofmind 15
Spot forged text 15
Forge a signature 20

Spoiler: Carpenter's tools

History. This tool proficiency aids you in identifying
the use and the origin of wooden buildings and other
large wooden objects.
Investigation. You gain additional insight when in-
specting areas within wooden structures, because you
know tricks of construction that can conceal areas from

discovery.

Perception. You can spot irregularities in wooden
walls or floors, making it easier to find trap doors and
secret passages.
Stealth. You can quickly assess the weak spots in a
wooden floor, making it easier to avoid the places that
creak and groan when they’re stepped on.
Fortify. With 1 minute of work and raw materials,
you can make a door or window harder to force open.
Increase the DC needed to open it by 5.
Temporary Shelter. As part of a long rest, you can
construct a lean—to or a similar shelter to keep your
group dry and in the shade for the duration of the rest.
Because it was fashioned quickly from whatever wood
was available, the shelter collapses 1d3 days after being
assembled.
Activity DC
Build a simple wooden structure 10
Design a complex wooden structure 15
Find a weak point in a wooden wall 15
Pry apart a door 20

Spoiler: Cartographer's tools

Arcana, History, Religion. You can use your knowl—
edge of maps and locations to unearth more detailed
information when you use these skills. For instance, you
might spot hidden messages in a map, identify when the
map was made to determine if geographical features
have changed since then, and so forth.
Nature. Your familiarity with physical geography
makes it easier for you to answer questions or solve is-
sues relating to the terrain around you.
Survival. Your understanding of geography makes it
easier to find paths to civilization, to predict areas where
villages or towns might be found, and to avoid becom-
ing lost. You have studied so many maps that common
patterns, such as how trade routes evolve and where
settlements arise in relation to geographic locations, are
familiar to you.
Craft a Map. While traveling, you can draw a map as
you go in addition to engaging in other activity.

Activity DC
Determine a map's age and origin 10
Estimate direction and distance to a landmark 15
Discern that a map is fake 15
Fill in a missing part ofa map 20

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Arcana, History. Your knowledge of shoes aids you in
identifying the magical properties of enchanted boots or
the history of such items.
Investigation. Footwear holds a surprising number
of secrets. You can learn where someone has recently
visited by examining the wear and the dirt that has ac-
cumulated on their shoes. Your experience in repairing
shoes makes it easier for you to identify where damage
might come from.
Maintain Shoes. As part of a long rest, you can repair
your companions‘ shoes. For the next 24 hours, up to six
creatures of your choice who wear shoes you worked on
can travel up to 10 hours a day without making saving
throws to avoid exhaustion.
Craft Hidden Compartment. With 8 hours of work,
you can add a hidden compartment to a pair of shoes.
The compartment can hold an object up to 3 inches long
and 1 inch wide and deep. You make an Intelligence
check using your tool proficiency to determine the In—
telligence (Investigation) check DC needed to find the
compartment.

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Activity DC
Determine a shoe’s age and origin 10
Find a hidden compartment in a boot heel 15

Spoiler: Cook's Utensils

History. Your knowledge of cooking techniques al—
lows you to assess the social patterns involved in a cul—
ture’s eating habits.
Medicine. When administering treatment, you can
transform medicine that is bitter or sour into a pleasing
concoction.
Survival. When foraging for food, you can make do
with ingredients you scavenge that others would be un-
able to transform into nourishing meals.
Prepare Meals. As part of a short rest, you can pre—
pare a tasty meal that helps your companions regain
their strength. You and up to five creatures of your
choice regain 1 extra hit point per Hit Die spent during
a short rest, provided you have access to your cook’s
utensils and sufficient food.
Activity DC
Create a typical meal 10
Duplicate a meal 10
Spot poison or impurities in food 15
Create a gourmet meal 15

Spoiler: Diguise Kit

Intimidation. The right disguise can make you look
more fearsome, whether you want to scare someone
away by posing as a plague victim or intimidate a gang
of thugs by taking the appearance of a bully.
Performance. A cunning disguise can enhance an au—
dience's enjoyment of a performance, provided the dis-
guise is properly designed to evoke the desired reaction.
Persuasion. Folk tend to trust a person in uniform. If
you disguise yourself as an authority figure, your efforts
to persuade others are often more effective.
Create Disguise. As part of a long rest, you can
create a disguise. It takes you 1 minute to don such a
disguise once you have created it. You can carry only
one such disguise on you at a time without drawing
undue attention, unless you have a bag ofholding or
a similar method to keep them hidden. Each disguise
weighs 1 pound.
At other times, it takes 10 minutes to craft a disguise
that involves moderate changes to your appearance,
and 30 minutes for one that requires more exten-
sive changes.
Activity DC
Cover injuries or distinguishing marks 10
Spot a disguise being used by someone else l5
Copy a humanoid’s appearance 20

Spoiler: Forgery Kit

Deception. A well-crafted forgery, such as papers pro-
claiming you to be a noble or a writ that grants you safe
passage, can lend credence to a lie.
History. A forgery kit combined with your knowledge
of history improves your ability to create fake historical
documents or to tell if an old document is authentic.
Investigation. When you examine objects. proficiency
with a forgery kit is useful for determining how an ob-
ject was made and whether it is genuine.
Other Tools. Knowledge of other tools makes your
forgeries that much more believable. For example, you
could combine proficiency with a forgery kit and profi—
ciency with cartographer’s tools to make a fake map.
Quick Fake. As part of a short rest, you can produce
a forged document no more than one page in length. As
part of a long rest, you can produce a document that is
up to four pages long. Your Intelligence check using a
forgery kit determines the DC for someone else’s Intelli—
gence (Investigation) check to spot the fake.
Activity DC
Mimic handwriting 15
Duplicate a wax seal 20

Spoiler: Gaming Set

History. Your mastery of a game includes knowledge
of its history, as well as of important events it was con«
nected to or prominent historical figures involved with it.
Insight. Playing games with someone is a good way to
gain understanding of their personality, granting you a
better ability to discern their lies from their truths and
read their mood.
Sleight of 'Hand. Sleight of Hand is a useful skill for
cheating at a game, as it allows you to swap pieces,
palm cards, or alter a die roll. Alternatively, engrossing
a target in a game by manipulating the components with
dexterous movements is a great distraction for a pick-
pocketing attempt.
Activity DC
Catch a player cheating 15
Gain insight into an opponent’s personality 15

That goes on for another 4 pages. Stop blaming casters for what is either a hostile GM, lack of creativity in applying abilities, or the simple problem that comes from having options at your disposal that regularly fail to apply to the current situation... Casters feel all of those and face the added joy of wotc still fighting the extremes of 2e/3.x as if they are still present

There's nothing wrong with promoting and encouraging creative use of skills. In fact, it should be promoted and encouraged. - it's a great way for players to think creatively/get more out of the game.

BUT

It's not a martial vs. caster thing.

Again - casters can be creative with their skills too AND they have magic.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Here's another one from a dmg section on chases "Characters being chased through a forest by bugbears might spot a wasp nest and slow down long enough to attack the nest or throw rocks at it, thus creating an obstacle for their pursuers.".


Pitons(for climbing) are 5cp, included along with rope in the burglars & dungeoneers pack. 5e may not have bothered to explain what they do or how to use them (not that I can find)

Spoiler: but here is what pitons used to do

Making Your Own Handholds and Footholds:
You can make your own handholds and footholds by pounding pitons into a wall. Doing so takes 1 minute per piton, and one piton is needed per 3 feet of distance. As with any surface that offers handholds and footholds, a wall with pitons in it has a DC of 15. In the same way, a climber with a handaxe or similar implement can cut handholds in an ice wall. Catching Yourself When Falling: It’s practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling. Make a Climb check (DC = wall’sDC + 20) to do so. It’s much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope’s DC + 10).

Don't forget climber's kits either

Spoiler

Climber’s Kit. A climber’s kit includes special pitons,
boot tips, gloves, and a harness. You can use the
climber’s kit as an action to anchor yourself; when you
do, you can’t fall m ore than 25 feet from the point where
you anchored yourself, and you can't climb m ore than 25
feet away from that point without undoing the anchor.
-5e phb151

Even if not proficient your still going to be adding strength or dex to the roll

Here are several more things from xge that are very much not just breaking things

Spoiler: alchemist supplies

Investigation. When you inspect an area for clues,
proficiency with alchemist’s supplies grants additional
insight into any chemicals or other substances that
might have been used in the area.
Alchemical Crafting. You can use this tool proficiency
to create alchemical items. A character can spend
money to collect raw materials, which weigh 1 pound
for every 50 gp spent. The DM can allow a character to
make a check using the indicated skill with advantage.
As part of a long rest, you can use alchemist’s supplies
to make one dose of acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin,
oil, perfume, or soap. Subtract half the value of the cre-
ated item from the total gp worth of raw materials you
are carrying.
Activity DC
Create a puffofthick smoke 10
Identify a poison 1O
Identify a substance 15
Start a fire 15
Neutralize acid 20

Spoiler: Brewers Supplies

History. Proficiency with brewer’s supplies gives
you additional insight on Intelligence (History) checks
concerning events that involve alcohol as a signifi-
cant element.
Medicine. This tool proficiency grants additional
insight when you treat anyone suffering from alcohol
poisoning or when you can use alcohol to dull pain.
Persuasion. A stiff drink can help soften the hardest
heart. Your proficiency with brewer’s supplies can help
you ply someone with drink, giving them just enough
alcohol to mellow their mood.
Potable Water. Your knowledge of brewing enables
you to purify water that would otherwise be undrink—
able. As part of a long rest, you can purify up to 6 gal-
lons of water, or 1 gallon as part of a short rest.
BREWER'S SUPPLIES
Activity DC
Detect poison or impurities in a drink 10
Identify alcohol 15
Ignore effects ofalcohol 20

Spoiler: Calligrapher's supplies

replicate its style and design.
Components. Calligrapher’s supplies include ink, a
dozen sheets of parchment, and three quills.
Arcana. Although calligraphy is of little help in deci—
phering the content of magical writings, proficiency with
these supplies can aid in identifying who wrote a script
of a magical nature.
History. This tool proficiency can augment the
benefit of successful checks made to analyze or inves-
tigate ancient writings, scrolls, or other texts, includ—
ing runes etched in stone or messages in frescoes or
other displays.
Decipher Treasure Map. This tool proficiency grants
you expertise in examining maps. You can make an
Intelligence check to determine a map's age, whether a i
map includes any hidden messages, or similar facts.
Activity DC
Identify writer of nonmagical script 10
Determine writer's state ofmind 15
Spot forged text 15
Forge a signature 20

Spoiler: Carpenter's tools

History. This tool proficiency aids you in identifying
the use and the origin of wooden buildings and other
large wooden objects.
Investigation. You gain additional insight when in-
specting areas within wooden structures, because you
know tricks of construction that can conceal areas from

discovery.

Perception. You can spot irregularities in wooden
walls or floors, making it easier to find trap doors and
secret passages.
Stealth. You can quickly assess the weak spots in a
wooden floor, making it easier to avoid the places that
creak and groan when they’re stepped on.
Fortify. With 1 minute of work and raw materials,
you can make a door or window harder to force open.
Increase the DC needed to open it by 5.
Temporary Shelter. As part of a long rest, you can
construct a lean—to or a similar shelter to keep your
group dry and in the shade for the duration of the rest.
Because it was fashioned quickly from whatever wood
was available, the shelter collapses 1d3 days after being
assembled.
Activity DC
Build a simple wooden structure 10
Design a complex wooden structure 15
Find a weak point in a wooden wall 15
Pry apart a door 20

Spoiler: Cartographer's tools

Arcana, History, Religion. You can use your knowl—
edge of maps and locations to unearth more detailed
information when you use these skills. For instance, you
might spot hidden messages in a map, identify when the
map was made to determine if geographical features
have changed since then, and so forth.
Nature. Your familiarity with physical geography
makes it easier for you to answer questions or solve is-
sues relating to the terrain around you.
Survival. Your understanding of geography makes it
easier to find paths to civilization, to predict areas where
villages or towns might be found, and to avoid becom-
ing lost. You have studied so many maps that common
patterns, such as how trade routes evolve and where
settlements arise in relation to geographic locations, are
familiar to you.
Craft a Map. While traveling, you can draw a map as
you go in addition to engaging in other activity.

Activity DC
Determine a map's age and origin 10
Estimate direction and distance to a landmark 15
Discern that a map is fake 15
Fill in a missing part ofa map 20

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Arcana, History. Your knowledge of shoes aids you in
identifying the magical properties of enchanted boots or
the history of such items.
Investigation. Footwear holds a surprising number
of secrets. You can learn where someone has recently
visited by examining the wear and the dirt that has ac-
cumulated on their shoes. Your experience in repairing
shoes makes it easier for you to identify where damage
might come from.
Maintain Shoes. As part of a long rest, you can repair
your companions‘ shoes. For the next 24 hours, up to six
creatures of your choice who wear shoes you worked on
can travel up to 10 hours a day without making saving
throws to avoid exhaustion.
Craft Hidden Compartment. With 8 hours of work,
you can add a hidden compartment to a pair of shoes.
The compartment can hold an object up to 3 inches long
and 1 inch wide and deep. You make an Intelligence
check using your tool proficiency to determine the In—
telligence (Investigation) check DC needed to find the
compartment.

Spoiler: Cobbler's tools

Activity DC
Determine a shoe’s age and origin 10
Find a hidden compartment in a boot heel 15

Spoiler: Cook's Utensils

History. Your knowledge of cooking techniques al—
lows you to assess the social patterns involved in a cul—
ture’s eating habits.
Medicine. When administering treatment, you can
transform medicine that is bitter or sour into a pleasing
concoction.
Survival. When foraging for food, you can make do
with ingredients you scavenge that others would be un-
able to transform into nourishing meals.
Prepare Meals. As part of a short rest, you can pre—
pare a tasty meal that helps your companions regain
their strength. You and up to five creatures of your
choice regain 1 extra hit point per Hit Die spent during
a short rest, provided you have access to your cook’s
utensils and sufficient food.
Activity DC
Create a typical meal 10
Duplicate a meal 10
Spot poison or impurities in food 15
Create a gourmet meal 15

Spoiler: Diguise Kit

Intimidation. The right disguise can make you look
more fearsome, whether you want to scare someone
away by posing as a plague victim or intimidate a gang
of thugs by taking the appearance of a bully.
Performance. A cunning disguise can enhance an au—
dience's enjoyment of a performance, provided the dis-
guise is properly designed to evoke the desired reaction.
Persuasion. Folk tend to trust a person in uniform. If
you disguise yourself as an authority figure, your efforts
to persuade others are often more effective.
Create Disguise. As part of a long rest, you can
create a disguise. It takes you 1 minute to don such a
disguise once you have created it. You can carry only
one such disguise on you at a time without drawing
undue attention, unless you have a bag ofholding or
a similar method to keep them hidden. Each disguise
weighs 1 pound.
At other times, it takes 10 minutes to craft a disguise
that involves moderate changes to your appearance,
and 30 minutes for one that requires more exten-
sive changes.
Activity DC
Cover injuries or distinguishing marks 10
Spot a disguise being used by someone else l5
Copy a humanoid’s appearance 20

Spoiler: Forgery Kit

Deception. A well-crafted forgery, such as papers pro-
claiming you to be a noble or a writ that grants you safe
passage, can lend credence to a lie.
History. A forgery kit combined with your knowledge
of history improves your ability to create fake historical
documents or to tell if an old document is authentic.
Investigation. When you examine objects. proficiency
with a forgery kit is useful for determining how an ob-
ject was made and whether it is genuine.
Other Tools. Knowledge of other tools makes your
forgeries that much more believable. For example, you
could combine proficiency with a forgery kit and profi—
ciency with cartographer’s tools to make a fake map.
Quick Fake. As part of a short rest, you can produce
a forged document no more than one page in length. As
part of a long rest, you can produce a document that is
up to four pages long. Your Intelligence check using a
forgery kit determines the DC for someone else’s Intelli—
gence (Investigation) check to spot the fake.
Activity DC
Mimic handwriting 15
Duplicate a wax seal 20

Spoiler: Gaming Set

History. Your mastery of a game includes knowledge
of its history, as well as of important events it was con«
nected to or prominent historical figures involved with it.
Insight. Playing games with someone is a good way to
gain understanding of their personality, granting you a
better ability to discern their lies from their truths and
read their mood.
Sleight of 'Hand. Sleight of Hand is a useful skill for
cheating at a game, as it allows you to swap pieces,
palm cards, or alter a die roll. Alternatively, engrossing
a target in a game by manipulating the components with
dexterous movements is a great distraction for a pick-
pocketing attempt.
Activity DC
Catch a player cheating 15
Gain insight into an opponent’s personality 15

That goes on for another 4 pages. Stop blaming casters for what is either a hostile GM, lack of creativity in applying abilities, or the simple problem that comes from having options at your disposal that regularly fail to apply to the current situation... Casters feel all of those and face the added joy of wotc still fighting the extremes of 2e/3.x as if they are still present

The tool proficiencies section in Xanathars goes from pg. 78-84; that is 6 pages for the numbers people here. The 'Spells' chapter goes from 147-171, or 24 pages of additional options..

Please tell me more about this fair treatment and my lack of creativity.

 

[Campbell]

Fundamentally D&D implies escalation of stakes as character levels rise. Capability within combat arena does generally raise with the implied stakes, but unfortunately not only do the numbers on your sheet for skills fail to raise commensurate to those stakes, but there is no real sense given or support provided for how a high level fighter should differ from a low level one outside of combat capability.