Monsters are more than their stats

[Just Another User]

There's also an aspect of that it seems like spell-like abilities trump actual non-magical abilities a.k.a skills. For example, looking at the 4E succubus, couldn't she have simply seduced him via her SKILLs? She does have Bluff and Diplomacy scores of +15

Does this mean that any PC with bluff and diplomacy 15+ can seduce the king (or anybody else) and make him do whater he/she want?

 

[ThirdWizard]

And you have a good reason to do it because she can do things you can't do and you want to learn how or that she does them for you.

Do your players often beg and plead you to send them to their untimely end by their own hand?

 

[DandD]

Well, if they invest their times and are ready to have sex with him, perhaps even marry him, I would say yes. It's not like the Succubus has to only roll once for the skill-check, and it's done. There would be many weeks of seduction, which means many many skill-checks that need to be successfull...

Which for the plot, we simply assume that the Succubus already managed to do that.

If player characters want to do the same, they can, if they have the time, and acrue enough successes.

 

[Lacyon]

Does this mean that any PC with bluff and diplomacy 15+ can seduce the king (or anybody else) and make him do whater he/she want?

Skill challenge time.

 

[katahn]

Does this mean that any PC with bluff and diplomacy 15+ can seduce the king (or anybody else) and make him do whater he/she want?

It just means that the succubus doesn't have to only use her charm ability. Selective use of charm, enhanced by her skills, can produce better results than either alone. Charm the king, use her nonmagical social skills on the various flunkies of said charmed king. Suddenly the nobles of the land are "entranced and delighted by the king's consort" who has a "lively wit and certainly puts a sparkle in the king's eye" followed by knowing nods and winks.

Relying purely on political maneuvering and nonmagical social skills she could make life difficult for anyone she couldn't bring under her sway. Use of magic would best be kept minimal, after all you never know when someone will break free of the charm and realize what happened, or when some annoying adventurer finds evidence of magic. Social skills aren't as potent, but they're a lot less likely to backfire on you or be noticed by an antagonistic queen or court magician.

If nothing else, consider Palpatine from the Star Wars setting. He most certainly used the Force (magic) to accomplish his goals, but often had to "disconnect" from it in order to hide his activities from the collective eyes of several jedi masters. This meant he also had to be a very skilled and adept politician and manipulator, able to "win friends and influence people" without needing to always rely on magic.

 

[LEHaskell]

Skill challenge time.

DM: You want to do WHAT with your Acrobatics Skill?

 

[jackston2]

In 4e, on the other hand, "Just Make Stuff Up" (tm) is the RAW, which makes me feel much better while playing.

I agree, but to further clarify for 4e haters:

4e is not merely "make stuff up" which, yes, you always could have done. Instead, 4e tells you what stuff you should make up and what stuff you shouldn't touch.

 

[Lacyon]

DM: You want to do WHAT with your Acrobatics Skill?

The greatest sin of the succubus preview is that she doesn't have that skill trained.

 

[med stud]

Does this mean that any PC with bluff and diplomacy 15+ can seduce the king (or anybody else) and make him do whater he/she want?

Why would a king be immune to seduction? A PC with that amount of skill could most likely assassinate the king, beat him in a straight fight and, with 3e power levels, kill his body guards, burn his castle and fly away invisible.

So seduct him, very much yes.

I think it's perfectly alright that the succubus uses her "natural" charm for seduction, but not only that. The succubus could assassinate the queen or even the king himself and take her/his place. She starts out as the lover, learns the kings manners of speech and body and then she kills him and takes his shape.

If she is only to seduce, she can take any form what-so-ever. The king like blonds? He gets a blonde. Same thing with all hair colours and bodies and what have you. Add to this centuries or millenia of experience, a high intelligence and a sociopathic personality and you have the most dangerous honey trap imaginable. Most other classic beauty queens are in their teens to their low twenties; this one is old and evil. For me, that's enough.

 

[Lizard]

The greatest sin of the succubus preview is that she doesn't have that skill trained.

Not a problem, just shift a few skill points around or change a feat to 'Skill Focus' and...oh, wait.