D&D (2024) Monsters of the Multiverse: the death of eldritch blast?

[Yaarel]

I never enjoyed stuff like this. It's like the weapon that does 9999 damage Final Fantasy gives you on the first disc then makes you afraid to use so you never use it. So why even have it?

To be fair, the player gets two. So there is some freedom to use at least one of them.

 

[Yaarel]

Character death is just a dumb thing that impedes this and prevents real stakes from materializing. How can you follow through with actual stakes if the character might be removed from the story at random at any time, leaving plot thread hanging uselessly in the wind?

I agree with this.

While death needs to be a real risk, it can get in the way of deeper stories.

 

[Marandahir]

The Paladin has been the gish for a number of editions.

The 5e Warlock Hexblade is arguably the first successful arcane gish.

I can see 50e emphasizing that success.

4Essentials Hexblade was a very effective Gish and was able to do Pact blades of each different type of Pact - even more than one for some types, like we had both an Excalibur-esque Pact Blade for Hexblades with Archfey Pacts of the Lady of the White Well, and an Icy Rapier Pact Blade for Hexblades that made their Archfey Pact with the Prince of Frost.

Hexblade in 5e is locked into the Gloom Pact / Shadowfell Pact "Frostmourne-Hungers" flavour by explicitely tying all Hexblades to the Shadowfell, and that was because it was an inelegant solution to Pact of the Blade being underpowered and not doing what people wanted it to do. I could see a 5.5e Warlock having Hexblade-type options built into Pact of the Blade, but each of the other three Pact Boons would have to be made much more robust as well to be comparable.

Just for some background,. 4Essentials had Original Warlock, Binder, and Hexblade - each able to explore different Pacts. Binder had a bit of Tomelock's shtick in terms of being a more Intelligent, almost Wizardly warlock, but functionally was more like Pact of the Chains in terms of summoning and binding spirits. Original Warlock was trying to do multiple things too, so they merged Hexblade and Binder into the Original Warlock, and split the Binder up into two separate Pact Boons. Pact of the Talisman had no equivalent in 4e.

I would be very upset if all Warlocks were now Hexblades. That isn't what people want out of a Warlock. I don't think that's happening. I also don't think they're turning Hexblade into a core class feature of the Warlock in 2024, since the Rules Expansion set is supposed to complement both the 2014 rules and the 2024 rules. They're not going to replace something from Xanathar's Guide with the new PHB.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Is it that it can't or that industry is too lazy and has trained the fanbase to expect it?

It can't in a scale in which D&D operates. Would work for a more niche game that has different (and way smaller) playerbase. But course even though the narrative stakes cannot work as the default stakes in D&D, the DMG could still offer better advice on how to build them.

I like rolling dice to do cool stuff. Character death is just a dumb thing that impedes this and prevents real stakes from materializing. How can you follow through with actual stakes if the character might be removed from the story at random at any time, leaving plot thread hanging uselessly in the wind?

 

[Nefermandias]

Is it that it can't or that industry is too lazy and has trained the fanbase to expect it?

I like rolling dice to do cool stuff. Character death is just a dumb thing that impedes this and prevents real stakes from materializing. How can you follow through with actual stakes if the character might be removed from the story at random at any time, leaving plot thread hanging uselessly in the wind?

Character death isn't dumb. I have a lot of fun murdering my player's characters and they have fun trying to survive my murderous adventures. It's just not for you and I'll admit it's not the base assumption for most modern D&D games.

 

[Yaarel]

4Essentials Hexblade was a very effective Gish and was able to do Pact blades of each different type of Pact - even more than one for some types, like we had both an Excalibur-esque Pact Blade for Hexblades with Archfey Pacts of the Lady of the White Well, and an Icy Rapier Pact Blade for Hexblades that made their Archfey Pact with the Prince of Frost.

Hexblade in 5e is locked into the Gloom Pact / Shadowfell Pact "Frostmourne-Hungers" flavour by explicitely tying all Hexblades to the Shadowfell, and that was because it was an inelegant solution to Pact of the Blade being underpowered and not doing what people wanted it to do. I could see a 5.5e Warlock having Hexblade-type options built into Pact of the Blade, but each of the other three Pact Boons would have to be made much more robust as well to be comparable.

Just for some background,. 4Essentials had Original Warlock, Binder, and Hexblade - each able to explore different Pacts. Binder had a bit of Tomelock's shtick in terms of being a more Intelligent, almost Wizardly warlock, but functionally was more like Pact of the Chains in terms of summoning and binding spirits. Original Warlock was trying to do multiple things too, so they merged Hexblade and Binder into the Original Warlock, and split the Binder up into two separate Pact Boons. Pact of the Talisman had no equivalent in 4e.

I would be very upset if all Warlocks were now Hexblades. That isn't what people want out of a Warlock. I don't think that's happening. I also don't think they're turning Hexblade into a core class feature of the Warlock in 2024, since the Rules Expansion set is supposed to complement both the 2014 rules and the 2024 rules. They're not going to replace something from Xanathar's Guide with the new PHB.

@Crimson Longinus changes all of the Pact Boons into Invocations instead. In this way, the Hexblade can be an Invocation too. And a Warlock of any Patron can choose the Hexblade, including a Fey Hexblade that has a more King Arthur vibe (who got his sword Excalibur from the Fey lady of the lake).

 

[Marandahir]

It can't in a scale in which D&D operates. Would work for a more niche game that has different (and way smaller) playerbase. But course even though the narrative stakes cannot work as the default stakes in D&D, the DMG could still offer better advice on how to build them.

Plus, no worries for Boromir's player: he rolled up a not-quite-identical brother character for the next adventure they ran, only he joined up with Frodo and Sam while Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli's players split off to do their own party.

And Gandalf's player suddenly got some free time again and got to rejoin Aragorn and crew, while they brought in another new friend to join Frodo's team as the Chaotic Neutral Rogue Sméagol.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think maths are on your side on this. Or if you disagree, I'd really like to see what you actually mean.

I mean, Eldritch Blast is fine? It keeps up with baseline at-will DPR. It’s probably smart for most warlocks to take it as a backup attack. But you get a lot more mileage out of your non-cantrip spells anyway.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It can't in a scale in which D&D operates. Would work for a more niche game that has different (and way smaller) playerbase. But course even though the narrative stakes cannot work as the default stakes in D&D, the DMG could still offer better advice on how to build them.

D&D games are not novels. Boromir is killed for a narrative purpose, not because the dice were more important than the story.

 

[Charlaquin]

Plus, no worries for Boromir's player: he rolled up a not-quite-identical brother character for the next adventure they ran, only he joined up with Frodo and Sam while Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli's players split off to do their own party.

And Gandalf's player suddenly got some free time again and got to rejoin Aragorn and crew, while they brought in another new friend to join Frodo's team as the Chaotic Neutral Rogue Sméagol.

Nah dude, Boromir’s player switched to Sméagol. That’s why they were both so disruptive, working against the party, trying to steal Frodo’s ring of invisibility. Faramir was an element of Boromir’s backstory that the DM spun off into an NPC to try and use to force the Frodo/Sam/Sméagol party back onto the rails.

Gandalf has always been the overpowered DMPC.