D&D 5E Mythic Odysseys of Theros Reviews

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I don't see what's wrong with the statement: Monks are inspired by East Asian martial arts and philosophy. It's a cool class that adds a touch of a larger world to my game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I just think monks in D&D are cool. They're fun to play, have neat abilities, and represent a cool archetype. I don't have a problem with their being adapted to a specific setting, if they do a good job. It would sadden me if they were pulled from the game.

Yep.
And while I mostly agree with Paul about racism (there absolutely is such thing as more or less racist. Obviously.) I don’t think the Monk is especially racist.

But even if it does get changed due to its problematic elements, it will probably be “hey, team of cultural consultants who are big D&D nerds and experienced game designers of Asian descent, help us make a monk that isn’t problematic!” Not “No more monk!”

I’d love a reskin and rebuild that looks at Polynesian Mana, and ideas of unarmored warriors of various cultures in various regions. I could see something truly wonderful coming out of a spiritual/mystic warrior inspired by South Asian, Polynesian, and Indigenous American, concepts and historical/mythic warriors.

In the meantime, I might dig into the idea of mana more, and try to think about ki as a partly internal but also partly social and spiritual and...ancestral, power. Might be something to that for a subclass.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Those definitions wrong. They have been updated match current politics. I no long accept Oxford or Webster as dictionaries. They are unreliable.

“You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common,” the Doctor said. “They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.”

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

“You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common,” the Doctor said. “They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.”

Except I'm not changing the facts. Webster is:

Racism definition: Merriam-Webster to make update after request

Editors of the dictionary made the decision after receiving an email from a young black woman.

www.bbc.com

Merriam-Webster to revise racism definition after woman’s campaign

Kennedy Mitchum, who asked dictionary to update definition, said racism is ‘prejudice combined with social and institutional power’

www.theguardian.com

Merriam-Webster Revises ‘Racism’ Entry After Missouri Woman Asks for Changes (Published 2020)

Kennedy Mitchum, 22, said the dictionary definition needed to be expanded to include systemic racism. The dictionary’s editors agreed.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yep.
And while I mostly agree with Paul about racism (there absolutely is such thing as more or less racist. Obviously.) I don’t think the Monk is especially racist.

I agree, it's not inherently racist, it's racist by association. I didn't use the term Kung Fu guy by accident. As most know the original monk was largely based on the then popular Kung Fu TV show. Which is why the idea of "the monk as a foreigner" is so much part of the class.

The monk can survive in D&D if it can distance itself completely from it's roots, and let the TV show be completely forgotten. It's the Class of River Tamm and Black Widow, and has nothing to do with exotic strangers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Except I'm not changing the facts. Webster is:

Racism definition: Merriam-Webster to make update after request

Editors of the dictionary made the decision after receiving an email from a young black woman.

www.bbc.com

Merriam-Webster to revise racism definition after woman’s campaign

Kennedy Mitchum, who asked dictionary to update definition, said racism is ‘prejudice combined with social and institutional power’

www.theguardian.com

Merriam-Webster Revises ‘Racism’ Entry After Missouri Woman Asks for Changes (Published 2020)

Kennedy Mitchum, 22, said the dictionary definition needed to be expanded to include systemic racism. The dictionary’s editors agreed.

www.nytimes.com

That just means you are not the person who is very stupid/powerful.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, it's not inherently racist, it's racist by association. I didn't use the term Kung Fu guy by accident. As most know the original monk was largely based on the then popular Kung Fu TV show. Which is why the idea of "the monk as a foreigner" is so much part of the class.

The monk can survive in D&D if it can distance itself completely from it's roots, and let the TV show be completely forgotten.

What would that mean, exactly? What do they need to change about the class to make it acceptable to you? You seem very certain that changes need to be made.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I agree, it's not inherently racist, it's racist by association. I didn't use the term Kung Fu guy by accident. As most know the original monk was largely based on the then popular Kung Fu TV show. Which is why the idea of "the monk as a foreigner" is so much part of the class.

The monk can survive in D&D if it can distance itself completely from it's roots, and let the TV show be completely forgotten.

What is the process by which something becomes racist by association.

How we do go from:

1. Humans are individuals who make individual choices.
2. Human come in many phenotypes, one of those is skin color
3. We choose to organize people by skin color into something called races. (Isn't this racist?)

to:

XXX. Monks are racist.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What is the process by which something becomes racist by association.

How we do go from:

1. Humans are individuals who make individual choices.
2. Human come in many phenotypes, one of those is skin color
3. We choose to organize people by skin color into something called races. (Isn't this racist?)
. . .
XXX. Monks are racist.

In the same way we go from:

1. I choose defintions to suit myself.

to

2. Anything I like.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What would that mean, exactly? What do they need to change about the class to make it acceptable to you? You seem very certain that changes need to be made.

What about a martial artist whose training tends towards the supernatural? Can that concept be handled appropriately? What language would we need to use?