D&D General Neolithic D&D

Well, clearly, I didn't understand what the OP wanted.

By the bolded, I thought the OP meant the literal span of time in which the Neolithic period occurred, roughly 10,000 BC until about 4,500 BC or later. If someone asks me about fantasy set in that range of time, the first thing that comes to my mind are the stories of JRR Tolkien. Further discussion in this thread and my own discussions with other people outside of this thread have helped me understand that, by neolithic, the OP was talking about genre, rather than literal time period, and that although the features of this neolithic genre were not well defined in the OP itself, Tolkien's legendarium does not share enough of them to merit inclusion in the discussion.

Time periods are virtually meaningless without context. And to give us that context, the OP mentioned the Neolithic, which is a specific reference to an era of human social and technological development on Earth; and also specifically pointed to Gobleki Tepe and Catalhoyuk, archaeology sites from that period. So I think it's safe to say they didn't mean 10,000 BC on Mars or Alpha Centauri.

EDIT: Also, I think it's worth noting that the genre is still fantasy, but the milieu is Neolithic. It's a semantic distinction, yes, but an important one IMO.
 
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Tolkien's work doesn't take place "in that time" in any meaningful sense. It's a weird hill to.die on.
I don't know what you mean by "in any meaningful sense." I'm talking about the author's stated intent.

From The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (1981), Letter #211 (p. 283 in my copy):
... I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap* in time between the Fall of Barad-dûr and our Days is sufficient for 'literary credibility', even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of 'pre-history'.​
...​
*I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh.
It's unclear what the Professor meant by "our Days". His use of the word now in his footnote would seem to suggest the present date of the writing of the letter in the year 1958, which would place the events of the LotR in about 4,000 BC, near the end of the Neolithic or beginning of the Copper Age, depending on where you are. Personally, I prefer to think he meant "our current (Sixth) Age" which I'd identify with the Iron Age beginning c. 1,000 to 800 BC, which puts the events of the LotR at about 7,000 or 6,800 BC which corresponds well with Plato's date for the sinking of Atlantis (c. 9,600 BC) if we assume an identification between Atlantis and Númenor. Either way, the date is either well within or close at least enough to be considered "Neolithic" for the purpose of setting a time period.

Now, you might think the Professor did a bad job of getting this across in his books, and, in his defense, I'd say his books aren't really about that. He rarely describes material culture at all and doesn't seem concerned with addressing the archaeology of the period. For that reason, he doesn't address your genre concerns which, if I understand correctly, are all about archaeology and what has been proven or is recognized as fact by archaeology. You also said you're interested in fantasy, but it's unclear how you want to reconcile or incorporate the two. In any case, it's clear that Tolkien's legendarium doesn't fit with how you personally want to imagine the Neolithic which is what this thread is about, so don't you think this is all a bit off-topic?
 


Time periods are virtually meaningless without context. And to give us that context, the OP mentioned the Neolithic, which is a specific reference to an era of human social and technological development on Earth; and also specifically pointed to Gobleki Tepe and Catalhoyuk, archaeology sites from that period. So I think it's safe to say they didn't mean 10,000 BC on Mars or Alpha Centauri.
JRR Tolkien wasn't writing about Mars or Alpha Centauri. He wasn't writing about other worlds. He was writing about our world, and the LotR is full of megalithic structures like Göbekli Tepe, places like the Barrow Downs, Isengard, and the Argonath, built by the Númenóreans or their descendants. Interestingly, and to which I alluded up-thread, the dating of the building of Göbekli Tepe (9,500 BC) coincides nicely with Plato's date for the sinking of Atlantis. When seen through Tolkien's lens of fantasy, Göbekli Tepe could be understood as a center built by Númenóreans in exile for the purpose of teaching agriculture and bringing civilization to the rest of the world. To me, this is what a fantasy Neolithic looks like.

EDIT: Also, I think it's worth noting that the genre is still fantasy, but the milieu is Neolithic. It's a semantic distinction, yes, but an important one IMO.
Yeah, I'm not sure what the distinction is. I wasn't meaning to imply what @Reynard is after is not fantasy. But I think there's a sub-genre distinction to be made between neolithic fantasy and medieval fantasy.
 
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Have you ever run a neolithic D&D campaign, or other fantasy RPG? How did it go? What sorts of adventures and things did you focus on?
So I did answer about other "stone age" fantasy games that I have run or played (i.e., Paleomythic, Blood & Snow, etc.), but I didn't catch that the "other fantasy RPG" could also apply to the questions that followed.

With running Paleomythic: A Roleplaying Game of Stone and Sorcery, I really wanted to embrace "sword and sorcery" style stories that were set in the stone age. I didn't really want to adhere strictly to any sort of perfectly historical simulationist Neolithic era style play. I wanted Neolithic Conan. I wanted Neolithic Elric of Melniboné, but from the human perspective. I wanted Neolithic Weird Tales. But I also took inspiration from other stone age media and comics, especially Mezolith by author Ben Haggerty and illustrator Adam Brockbank, as well as Far Cry Primal. Also, snakefolk. But part of that for me is also having some sci-fi elements in there as well.

Adventures tended to focus on things like rescuing kidnapped tribal members from hostile tribes of humans or beastfolk, slaying monstrous versions of megafauna who were preying upon the tribe, retrieving/stealing weird magical artifacts, dealing with powerful living gods and spirits, or fulfilling some rite or ritual of the tribe that requires a particular quest.
 

I've been wanting to run an Ice Age game, and here are my character restrictions:

  • Armor limited to Leather, Hide, and Ringmail
  • Weapons limited to simple weapons at first; basic weapons are stone, +1 weapons are bronze
  • It's going to be a hexcrawl, and I'm going to track spell components; no spell focuses

AC and damage will be a little lower, but some fancy stuff will show up as relics from a bygone age.
 

The medievalism of D&D is mostly vibes. Yes, there is plate armour and complex hilted swords and the like but there is nothing about AC 18 that is specifically medieval or 1d8 piercing for that matter.
Change or reskin the equipment list and probably the narrative around many of the tools and some of the skills and away you go.
You absolutely could do that, but I find re-skinning as a matter of course deeply unsatisfying. I'd want some new mechanics to make it worth it. Deeper rules for equipment damage and materials would be a good start.
 


I don't think so? Dark sun has advanced civilizations with writing and wheels and such doesn't it?

That isn't the neolithic.

the neolithic is about 10000 BCE, at the very beginnings of human civilization. There are towns and the beginnings of agriculture and, importantly, monumental structures and obviously complex societies. But there is not writing yet, nor the wheel, nor complete agriculture subsistence. Nonetheless there is a high level of sophistication in textiles and tools, with obsidian being the most valuable material in the world, and the beginnings of pottery.
Round one of Civilization then? I could get behind that!
 

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