I've played a Sorcerer in a party with a Wizard and I'm not seeing the problem here. We each had strengths and weaknesses and we each contributed to the party and we both successfully completed the adventure.
Access to the optional features in Tasha's would've given me a few more options, but I was already picking the spells that matched my theme and fit what the party needed from me.
I guess I'm just so tired of this Wizard vs Sorcerer as if they're eternally dueling. They're both good classes that are fun to play that offer different options to a party.
The thing is, we sorcerer players can't get anything nice without it being scrutinized to death by wizard players.
Cantrip Versatility. Druids, Clerics, and Wizards will be able to swap one Cantrip they learn with another cantrip from their class list whenever they gain a level.
Let's not forget this.
This boost Druids, Clerics, and Wizards if the DM has a long themed adventure where a damage type is resisted or immune for a long period of time an can be predicted. Like assults against vampires or treks into Hell/Abyss.
Sorcerers nerfed again.
Sorcerers can already do this, once per level they can retrain one spell they know, which includes cantripsl
My point was simply you stated (due to Arcane Recovery--which does require a short rest) that a Wizard was worth 1.5 Sorcerers. And whether you are using Twin Spell or swapping SP for spell slots, that claim is blatantly false.
And your use of metamagic so much is precisely why the classes were balanced before this trade. A sorcerer has limited spells, but through metamagic and do a lot with them--the wizard knows more spells, but their use is pretty standard.
FWIW, the one sorcerer in our main game rarely uses his SP for metamagic--he usually uses it for more spell slots. Obviously this will vary from player to player.
Ok, I guess there's a lot of things under the sun. It doesn't mean it is the most typical or even common situation.
But neither of them have metamagic, which when used properly and when needed can be incredibly effective IME. Channel Divinity is okay and Wild Shape can be great (for Moon Druids), but otherwise... meh At this point you're also comparing arcane vs divine casters-- I am more concerned about arcane vs arcane.
At this point I wouldn't call sorcerers truly arcane, their magic isn't based on knowing secrets about the universe -like wizards, bards and warlocks- sorcerers are just magic without adjectives.
A sorcerer's versatility is NOT supposed to be in the spells they know, neither is this supposed to be a power of Bards or Warlocks IMO. A sorcerer's versatility is in their metamagic--which now you also have metamagic versatility, which at least I can understand and is appropriate to what they are supposed to do well.
Yes, and it turned out it wasn't enough in practice.
Agreed. I see no reason why this feature should not apply to all classes with Cantrips (including subclasses).
Sorcerers can already do this in core.
Agreed. And I stated as much earlier. With this change, Wizards are now the only caster who is limited by the spells they have learned, and yet
they are supposed to be the most versatile casters????
Was this stated by the designers or official material at any point? or is it wishful thinking by the community?
More over, many are saying ho but it's just one spell on long rest. And yet, it is multiple spell over multiple long rest! The sorcerer class was balanced by the fact that a sorcerer had to be careful with spell known selection. Not anymore.
It wasn't correctly balanced though. Sorcerers are underpowered as they currently are. Making the class more forgiving is a good thing.
And for me, it is a whole world of difference. I mainly play campaign where one adventure can take a few weeks. I use a variant of resting where a short rest is 10 minutes, a long rest is 8h but no HP are recovered. This means that with that rule, it only takes a sorcerer a few rest to change his whole spell known (depending on level) and with proper divinations, the sorcerer will be able to fully adapt to the next adventure.
Because of course Clairvoyance is the gold standard in divination.
It is one of the reasons that I hate the new rule, as a sorcerer will always be able to fully adapt for the tasks at hand without any troubles whatsoever.
As opposed to being able to ever function on a very limited set of circumstances? Long rest are still not free and at will you know. I'm not a fan of this new feature, but I'll take what I can take. I mean, it isn't as if it magically allows sorcerers to summon shadow ponies, create demiplanes or even have magical pets. Sorcerers are still severely limited by spells known and sorcery points. Loosening out one of their other restrictions is a bit fair. I don't think sorcerers will become overpowered overnight because of this small change. And of they become overpowered, would it really be a bad thing? They have never been overpowered in any edition ever, yet we are at this point were people keep throwing "sorcerers will be overpowered" as some sort of boogieman we all must fear, as if there was an edition where they were so broken that every book was burned, every reference in the web was purposely taken down and everybody agreed to never speak of it again and pretend it never happened. I've yet to see a truly overpowered sorcerer, the closest we were to it was at the start of the edition when we were using elemental affinity wrong(as proven by the errata that clearly told us we were playing it wrong), and even then, it was ok, sorcerer was more or less ok with elemental affinity being played wrong. In all honesty, I'm tired of this boogieman, let us sorcerer players get nice things for a change.