NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hey hey, UK.

Hiya Pssthpok mate!

How's the rest of the text coming?

Slow, as I have been concentrating on the art...I think you guys will love the new cover.

Any chance of seeing the finished text by Monday?

Maybe for Tuesday. Hows that?

Don't get too sidetracked on other projects until you finish the one you sold!

No chance of that.

Incidently I got a wonderful early birthday present from my friend Zander yesterday. A novel called "The Elfish Gene" by Mark Barrowcliffe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elfish-Gene-Dungeons-Dragons-Growing/dp/1405091266

Once I picked it up I couldn't put it down (except for one moment when I had to set it down because I was laughing so hard). I think I had it read in about 4-5 hours flat.

Rarely has a book taken me on such a rollercoaster of emotions, from laugh out loud funny to heartbreaking moments where I must admit to getting a bit misty-eyed...hey, I'm an emotional guy, what can I say.

I can't recommend it highly enough, although I think UK gamers will probably get the most out of it.

 

[Pssthpok]

Well, I'm really looking forward to the art. What do you use? Water-soluble greyscales for the interior art?

Tuesday sounds fun, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Edit: Is there a section/blurb on exchanging items for more abilities? If not, there really needs to be and it needs to be declared therein exactly how you think it ought to be done, and if. I say this because people who don't visit the boards will never really know about those options unless you say so.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Well, I'm really looking forward to the art. What do you use? Water-soluble greyscales for the interior art?

Pantone Greyscale markers by Letraset.

Normally I will do some research and try and get a good pose and a number of ideas where to take the picture. Then I'll do a light pencil sketch and then work over the illustration with progressively darker shades of grey (10%, 30%, 50%, 70%, 90%).

This time I am going to try and add a black ink pen outline and maybe introduce some black marker to the darkest shadows. I'm trying to work up to a 'free-er' style which will will hopefully make things look better. I think one of the problems with the bestiary art was that it was too grey, but I just didn't trust myself with strong black lines at the time.

For the paintings I usually put in a lot more research (although the current Ascension cover on the pdf was pretty rushed, this new one will be much better.). I draw on a pad, then grid the picture and upscale it onto the drawing board (which I'll have marked with a grid). Then I'll start painting (in acrylics) the background, the foreground and lastly really try and pick off the detail.

At the moment I have the poses roughly sketched for both the new Ascension cover and the Gods & Monsters cover. The only thing I have to decide is which to use for which. One uses the perspective to look down on the monster while the other uses perspective to look up (sort of like the Bestiary cover only a bit more pronounced close up).

Tuesday sounds fun, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Well I am going to be busy with real world stuff on Monday (which will give me the opportunity to get some white acrylic paint and a new black ink pen when I am in the city centre).

Edit: Is there a section/blurb on exchanging items for more abilities? If not, there really needs to be and it needs to be declared therein exactly how you think it ought to be done, and if. I say this because people who don't visit the boards will never really know about those options unless you say so.

You know I am not convinced on the best way to implement this yet. But if I can't squeeze it into Ascension I'll definately cover it in Grimoire.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I think mathematically, exchanging an artifact should not "just" grant an esoteric power (As simple as that may be)

Reasoning:
A rank 1 god: 5 HD, 5 LA = ECL 10. Items = 1/3 Character power, so worth 3. Each artifact should be worth a .75 LA power. (Round up for pity's sake)

Rank 11 god: 55HD, 55 LA = ECL 110. Items = Worth a total of 36 LA. Each could be worth ~9 Ability slots. (I'd round this down for safety's sake. Cosmic powers can get pretty crazy)

Rank 32 God: 160 HD, 160 LA. Gear constitutes 106 of character's Power. Each artifact could be worth 25 divine slots. (I'd knock it down to +24; Both for safety, and because it gives enough slots for a Perfect Cosmic level [Effect])

Rank 200 God: ECL 2000. Items should total a +666 LA. = Each worth a 166 power slot equivalent. (or about 4 Transient Powers)

These are minimums. Gods with more HD would need tweaking. If you just want to go with a set power rank based on the deity's Tier, I'd go with this:
Mortal - 1 Divine ability. (Or 4 epic feats?)
Immortal - 1 Cosmic Ability (Artifacts also seem most important here)
Cosmic Entity - 3 Cosmic Abilities (Artifacts reach peak of potency at this stage)
Demiurge - ??? (Not sure if they count as Eternals yet)
Timelord/Highlord - 4 Transient powers for each universe so encompassed. (Note - Artifacts also seem less important at this tier; One's own personal powers will dictate exactly how any given fight goes. Anyone can sunder/steal/disjoin/Etc anything. Stats can, and will, be infinite or [Total]. (or both)
Essentially - A Deity should get an array of divine powers equivalent to what a deity One Divine Tier Lower gets. (So a Highlord [duad] would get 200 divine slots per artifact sacrificed (What a Time lord is alloted); An Old One (Rank 24) might get +16 worth of slots per artifact; Etc) I would also encourage that a deity be "Limited" to taking powers within a 'theme' and/or be limited to taking as "few" powers as possible. (So if you got 11 extra divine slots, you would have to take 1 cosmic and 5 divine powers, not 11 divine powers) This prevents the cherry-picking aspect of the system. (Lots of little powers can break the system or slow the game down to a crawl due to "defensive suite" syndrome: Immune to death? Yes; Stunning? Yes; Fire? Yes; Poison? Yes... Hit point damage? Yes. DM Fiats? Yes...)

 

[WarDragon]

Really, I think the most balanced way to do it would be to grant one divine ability slot for every +6 of the artifacts you're giving up. For example, an ECL 150 immortal would get four artifacts of +75 each (discounting weapons); 75 * 4 = 300, and 300/6 = 50. Thus, if that immortal gave up all of his artifacts, he'd get 50 extra divine abilities (or rather, eight cosmics and two divine abilities).

 

[Fieari]

Might want to consider some loss in the process of having intrinsic abilities. If you can get the exact same thing inherently, why use artifacts? Artifacts should grant a bit of extra boost to your power. Only a little bit, but still, something to make up for the fact that artifacts can be stolen.

 

[dante58701]

Artifacts are a kinda prestige thing. Hey, look at the neat toy I got. Plus there are divine abilities that magnify the power of artifacts.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Might want to consider some loss in the process of having intrinsic abilities. If you can get the exact same thing inherently, why use artifacts? Artifacts should grant a bit of extra boost to your power. Only a little bit, but still, something to make up for the fact that artifacts can be stolen.

This is sort of my opinion also. However, it does seem to penalise monstrous deities who may not seem capable of wielding artifacts.

On the one hand I have done away with one side of the arms race (in terms of the number of items/artifacts a deity can wield). But on the other hand, because I have retained the inherant power (simply within fewer artifacts) I have created another - that of artifacts themselves.

This problem wasn't present in 1st Edition, because the power of artifacts, while not 'capping out' where on a slower ascent.

One simple solution may be to not give immortals bonus powers for not wielding artifacts, instead giving them an ability score boost instead.

This ties into to an optional set of divinity rules I have been thinking about whereby an immortal only gains an ability score boost (and perhaps some standard spell-like abilities). The immortal then has to "buy" divine abilities using its ability score boost as a sort of 'divine collateral'.

e.g. Lets say a demipower gained a +12 boost to all scores but no divine abilities. You would expend 18 points of that to gain 3 divine abilities and retain only a +9 boost to each score.

This idea could also be useful for circumnavigating the 4 artifact rule. Imagine that each artifact also draws upon the immortals inherant power (in this case ability scores), reducing ability scores by an amount equal to the power of the artifact (a +6 sword would be -6, etc.).

This is only a crude example, but I think the theory is exciting. This could also be used to overcome the portfolio limitations.

Any comments? Questions?

 

[dante58701]

I think it's fine as is.

 

[Pssthpok]

I for one completely disagree with dante... again.

The artifact/ability system needs serious hammering out. The idea in place (drop an item, gain an esoteric) is functional, but really... open-ended.

If instead the standard was to gain ability points then yes, the trade-offs would become more readily apparent, the 'monstrous deity' idea wouldn't be left out the door, and the 'free esoteric' for the deity with no sort of archetypal items (or, heaven forbid, a deity with Vow of Poverty) would be a thing of the past.