NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread
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tracking isn't necessarily a survival skill, I see it as more of a generic skill that can be used in urban areas, the wilds, ect. and requires perception as well as the obvious searching around. Survival is just gut instinct. Tracking is learned. While scent would be more of a survival thing.
Tracking is intellectual, while survival is just primal urge.
Tracking is intellectual, while survival is just primal urge.
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
None the less, tracking in 3.5 uses the Survival skill. (No matter how much more sense it would make for Search)
That is very true and I've always thought that was bunk. Primarily because that which is instinctual is survival. Such as mankinds ability to learn and adapt. While the skills we learn are not necessarily mandatory for us to survive on a basic level (and that's what survival really is), they do enhance our ability to survive by allowing us to surpass the limitations of animals.
Case in Point: An animal, which is very adept at surviving, such as a wolf, can learn to sniff out their prey. But this does not mean they have the tracking feat. This merely means they instinctively use their natural inborn qualities to sense their quarry or perhaps danger, mostly based on instinct honed by experience.
Tracking on the other hand uses more than just sensory perception, it also uses deductive reasoning, which is far more developed than an animal's basic instincts.
Case in Point: A wolf is tracking it's prey via it's ability to sniff things out. That prey, a man, loses it's wallet. A tracker would use the wallet, read the address on the ID or follow other potential clues that a mere animal could not possibly hope to comprehend. A wolf would simply keep following the scent, barely even registering that something was dropped, let alone what it's purpose is.
Case in Point: A tracker is following a wolf and doubles back over the river when the wold discovers him, breaking a branch or two along the way in his carelessness. The wolf will be unlikely to find him because a wolf using it's survival skill would completely overlook the branches. Tracking is more than basic survival.
I was always confused as to why WOTC lumped together tracking and survival. Tracking should be based on search, spot, and gather information. I guess they just chose simplicity over logic again.
Case in Point: An animal, which is very adept at surviving, such as a wolf, can learn to sniff out their prey. But this does not mean they have the tracking feat. This merely means they instinctively use their natural inborn qualities to sense their quarry or perhaps danger, mostly based on instinct honed by experience.
Tracking on the other hand uses more than just sensory perception, it also uses deductive reasoning, which is far more developed than an animal's basic instincts.
Case in Point: A wolf is tracking it's prey via it's ability to sniff things out. That prey, a man, loses it's wallet. A tracker would use the wallet, read the address on the ID or follow other potential clues that a mere animal could not possibly hope to comprehend. A wolf would simply keep following the scent, barely even registering that something was dropped, let alone what it's purpose is.
Case in Point: A tracker is following a wolf and doubles back over the river when the wold discovers him, breaking a branch or two along the way in his carelessness. The wolf will be unlikely to find him because a wolf using it's survival skill would completely overlook the branches. Tracking is more than basic survival.
I was always confused as to why WOTC lumped together tracking and survival. Tracking should be based on search, spot, and gather information. I guess they just chose simplicity over logic again.
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
Actually, wolves do have the track feat. (And a +4 when tracking by scent)
While it does make more sense to use search or some other skill, for the purpose of keeping rules uniform and to prevent unnecessary rules changes, Tracking should remain in survival. Anything else would confuse people or would require yet another sidebar noting a minor rules change. Not really worth the effort.
While it does make more sense to use search or some other skill, for the purpose of keeping rules uniform and to prevent unnecessary rules changes, Tracking should remain in survival. Anything else would confuse people or would require yet another sidebar noting a minor rules change. Not really worth the effort.
=^.^= I never really thought that animals should be allowed to have the track feat, it's just nonsensical that they would have the ability to recognize vital clues in such a complex manner.
Primates and squirrels being possible exceptions of course.=^.^=
Of course I've also figured animals should have intelligences exceeding a 1 or a 2 in many cases. I'm not sure how they came to the conclusion that all animals were completely non-sentient. I actually find animals to have limited sentience, in many cases having near-human intellect, albeit more primitive from our viewpoint.
Example...Dolphins.
Primates and squirrels being possible exceptions of course.=^.^=
Of course I've also figured animals should have intelligences exceeding a 1 or a 2 in many cases. I'm not sure how they came to the conclusion that all animals were completely non-sentient. I actually find animals to have limited sentience, in many cases having near-human intellect, albeit more primitive from our viewpoint.
Example...Dolphins.
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Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey guys!
Sorry for being fairly absent of late, just had a really dreadful past few days, broke up with my girlfriend and I'm really deflated by the whole episode. I'll try not to let it distract me too much, been burying my head in Ascension, but having a lot of trouble concentrating. I'm sure many of you have went through similar experiences so no need to clutter this thread with any messages of sympathy...I'll be okay.
I was planning on instigating some sort of synergistic relationship between certain portfolios because they go well together. But I think that may be one layer of complexity too far. I have left it on the table as I was still wondering if I could figure it out. It will probably be erased in the final version if I cannot think of an appropriate solution.
Sorry for being fairly absent of late, just had a really dreadful past few days, broke up with my girlfriend and I'm really deflated by the whole episode. I'll try not to let it distract me too much, been burying my head in Ascension, but having a lot of trouble concentrating. I'm sure many of you have went through similar experiences so no need to clutter this thread with any messages of sympathy...I'll be okay.
Ltheb Silverfrond said:
I was planning on instigating some sort of synergistic relationship between certain portfolios because they go well together. But I think that may be one layer of complexity too far. I have left it on the table as I was still wondering if I could figure it out. It will probably be erased in the final version if I cannot think of an appropriate solution.
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
Sorry to hear it.Upper_Krust said:
On the flip side, a couple of my friends are interested in an immortals game. (They converted their old characters a few days ago and said that it would be fun to play the old characters one last time before 4E) They are all about lesser deities, and while I don't have much planned, I can say it involves Algol, Cogents, Plutonium Golems, and an Un-Elemental or twenty.
(And probably the PCs going toe to toe with FR's Cyric)
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
Ltheb, if you're playing in the Realms, and making the transition to 4E, you should try and see if you can make the game be sort of the "cause" of the Spellplague, et al. E.g. they fight Cyric, but it's inconclusive and the PCs are (partly) responsible for him successfully killing Mystra, with Shar pulling the strings, etc.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
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