New WotC Layoffs?

I have been unable to verify any of this, so consider this no more than a "rumour report". However I'm hearing that layoffs have occurred at WotC this week, and that one of the victims is art director Mark Painter. Again, all rumour at this point.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Talking about reorgs as "ominous corporate design",

If a "reorg" involves firing people, then it is an ominous thing for those people who may be fired.

when we don't even know if the reorg in question ended with anyone we care about getting the axe - doesn't seem like pure fantasy to me. I *FEEL* that is a cynical extreme. Want to convince me otherwise?

You feel that it's not bad news for someone to get fired unless it's someone "we" (you?) care personally about?

Forgive me if I find it hard to believe that you can be so monstrously callous. I really can't imagine that your reaction when you hear about how many of the people laid off when a company down-sizes are older, and then they struggle to find a job is aplomb, even if you don't personally know anyone like that. I don't believe you're that inhuman, Umbran.

Trying to convince folks (including those beyond the speaker) that the position is not well founded, and a knee jerk reaction we perhaps should be avoiding? Not so much.

Your mistake seems to be in characterizing "sympathy for those who may have been fired" (and thus a sense that a "reorganization" can be pretty ominous for those people) as a "knee-jerk reaction we perhaps should be avoiding."

Extending sympathy for those who may be suffering is never a reaction we should avoid. The moment we do, we violate the Golden Rule, dehumanize our fellow human beings, and permit a cruelty to go unchecked.

People may be out of a job. That would suck for them. What's cynical or extreme about acknowledging that this is not a great thing for them? Why is that empathy something you're so determined to warn others against feeling? Why is the idea that a reorganization might sound bad to them so taboo to you?

I'll never understand what the infatuation is with paying attention to everyone who is working at WotC and having a big brewhaaha every time that changes. Every other company in the planet does the same thing, and you never see anyone care. Only with WoTC it seems.

Speaking for myself: It's only reasonable to care about how the things you care about are made. If you care a lot about D&D, how it gets made and what's going on with its makers is an important part of that.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Speaking for myself: It's only reasonable to care about how the things you care about are made. If you care a lot about D&D, how it gets made and what's going on with its makers is an important part of that.

There are a lot of things I care about. I'm assuming this is true of most everyone. But it's odd that it only seems to be WotC where people make a big deal about this stuff. Even to the point where we have many people issuing outright threats to the company and Mearls.

There's being sympathetic and empathetic, and there's being on the same level as a creepy stalker. There is a LOT of vitriol directed at WoTC for doing nothing out of the ordinary. It's a big difference between "this sucks" and "I hope they burn into the ground...i will do everything in my power to ruin 5e."

Personally, I don't think we as a community should keep tacitly approving that second sort of behavior. And that's what we do when we allow it in the conversation and don't call people out on it. And yes, I do personally find it an unhealthy obsession to be focused on every single person who works for WotC and making a big deal any time they move depts or leave the company. YMMV of course.

 

[Morrus]

There are a lot of things I care about. I'm assuming this is true of most everyone. But it's odd that it only seems to be WotC where people make a big deal about this stuff. Even to the point where we have many people issuing outright threats to the company and Mearls.

There's being sympathetic and empathetic, and there's being on the same level as a creepy stalker. There is a LOT of vitriol directed at WoTC for doing nothing out of the ordinary. It's a big difference between "this sucks" and "I hope they burn into the ground...i will do everything in my power to ruin 5e."

Personally, I don't think we as a community should keep tacitly approving that second sort of behavior. And that's what we do when we allow it in the conversation and don't call people out on it. And yes, I do personally find it an unhealthy obsession to be focused on every single person who works for WotC and making a big deal any time they move depts or leave the company. YMMV of course.

You think this is bad? Don't join any superhero movie forums, whatever you do! It's this times a hundred.

 

[I'm A Banana]

There are a lot of things I care about. I'm assuming this is true of most everyone. But it's odd that it only seems to be WotC where people make a big deal about this stuff. Even to the point where we have many people issuing outright threats to the company and Mearls.

There's being sympathetic and empathetic, and there's being on the same level as a creepy stalker. There is a LOT of vitriol directed at WoTC for doing nothing out of the ordinary. It's a big difference between "this sucks" and "I hope they burn into the ground...i will do everything in my power to ruin 5e."

D&D overlaps a lot with personal identity for a lot of people - it becomes part of how you define yourself, you're a "D&D person." So when things happen with the game, it becomes personal in the minds of a lot of fans, and the reactions can get hostile.

That's brand loyalty for ya!

You can see similar things happening with the "gamer" community recently, and you can see it happening on a yearly basis with football fans (both regular and Foreigner Football! ). Religions often go through similar things periodically - bouts of fundamentalism work on a not-entirely-dissimilar pathway. All of these are also things that get incorporated into peoples' self-image.

Which isn't an excuse for that craziness, of course, just an explanation for it. Folks still are responsible for their own instances of being horrible, horrible people.

Personally, I don't think we as a community should keep tacitly approving that second sort of behavior. And that's what we do when we allow it in the conversation and don't call people out on it. And yes, I do personally find it an unhealthy obsession to be focused on every single person who works for WotC and making a big deal any time they move depts or leave the company. YMMV of course.

I'd draw a distinction between caring about what happens at the company, and threats and violence. They're related, but not the same thing - the former happens because you care, the latter happens because you care and also because you're expressing poor judgement.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You think this is bad? Don't join any superhero movie forums, whatever you do! It's this times a hundred.

Touche. I remember the "Thor is a woman!" reaction.


Oh my...

But do comic forums start threads every time DC or Marvel let someone go, even someone who no one knows who they are?

"Marvel just let go their associate color producer Mike James. Let's create a thread about it."

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

I wonder where D&D would be now, if WotC had retained everyone ever employed by TSR, and not been one of those bastard companies that go around firing people that aren't needed?

 

[sunshadow21]

When a comic changes an author or writer or someone else on the creative side of comic, usually. And since a tabletop game has a small enough team that most everyone on the direct team is involved at some level on the creative aspect of the game, the level of concern is not surprising. Add in a very negative history in this department and it becomes even less surprising. It's still not necessarily good, but it's part of being in the position that WOTC and D&D are in.

 

[Morrus]

Touche. I remember the "Thor is a woman!" reaction.


Oh my...

But do comic forums start threads every time DC or Marvel let someone go, even someone who no one knows who they are?

"Marvel just let go their associate color producer Mike James. Let's create a thread about it."

Even worse. They obsess over budgets. It's far worse than just the obvious outrage every single time any superhero is cast in a movie.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I wonder where D&D would be now, if WotC had retained everyone ever employed by TSR, and not been one of those bastard companies that go around firing people that aren't needed?

My ideal "if I ruled the world and could grant wishes" scenario would probably be companies that don't have to worry about firing people who aren't needed because we have a strong social safety net that means that employees who can't work can still get some minimum standard of life without having to have a job, but since even people who DO work often can't get a decent standard of life, a company is caught in a situation where they often have to chose between making life suck for someone and maximizing profits next quarter. That decision is basically always already made for you if you're publicly traded, regardless of how people feel about it (and I'm sure those people who have empathy for you don't feel great!).

Though discussing what would happen in an ideal world in some big way would probably mean shifting to the Off-Topic forum for some politics action.

At the moment, for me, it's enough to acknowledge that it sucks to get fired, like it sucks to get caught in any event beyond your control that takes an element of life you trusted and removes it from under you. It sucks even if it was the best decision WotC could possibly make - that logic doesn't make it NOT suck to be suddenly jobless.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

My ideal "if I ruled the world and could grant wishes" scenario would probably be companies that don't have to worry about firing people who aren't needed because we have a strong social safety net that means that employees who can't work can still get some minimum standard of life without having to have a job, but since even people who DO work often can't get a decent standard of life, a company is caught in a situation where they often have to chose between making life suck for someone and maximizing profits next quarter. That decision is basically always already made for you if you're publicly traded, regardless of how people feel about it (and I'm sure those people who have empathy for you don't feel great!).

Though discussing what would happen in an ideal world in some big way would probably mean shifting to the Off-Topic forum for some politics action.

At the moment, for me, it's enough to acknowledge that it sucks to get fired, like it sucks to get caught in any event beyond your control that takes an element of life you trusted and removes it from under you. It sucks even if it was the best decision WotC could possibly make - that logic doesn't make it NOT suck to be suddenly jobless.

Of course it sucks, and if this rumors pans out, I will gladly send my best wishes to whomever is fired, but it is still a rumor (unless I missed something).