D&D 5E Niche protection: the wizard’s niche

[Amrûnril]

Fair. I think it also shows that people aren't reading the OP and just voting based on what they assume the categories are. I defined utility caster in the OP, and most people commenting that they voted for utility caster seem to think it means the status quo of "step on everyone's toes all the time."

It's possible some people are voting this way, but I certainly had a more limited conception of utility magic in mind when I voted for that option.

Utility caster spells to me are all the ones that deal with 'environmental' problems and obstacles, stuff like feather fall, alarm, unseen servant, leomunds tiny hut, invisibility, knock, spider climb, water breathing and water walk, fly, sending, speak with dead, dimension door, fabricate, stoneshape.

I'd also add spells that manipulate magic, such as Dispel Magic, Counterspell, Nystul's Aura etc.

 

[Scribe]

I'd also add spells that manipulate magic, such as Dispel Magic, Counterspell, Nystul's Aura etc.

See I drop things like this, into Control.

Utility Control for President, 2024.

 

[James Gasik]

Noticing that no votes have been cast for "buff/debuff"- does this mean that people feel a spell like, say, Slow, shouldn't be a Wizard spell, or does everyone think of that as "battlefield control"?

 

[overgeeked]

See I drop things like this, into Control.

Utility Control for President, 2024.

Maybe we should redesign the wizard with three core stats. Maybe something like Control, Sense, and Alter. Then divide up the spells between those. Some spells will overlap, of course. Say Control + Alter or Sense + Control. And the spell’s effectiveness is based on those three stats. Maybe they should be rolled with each cast.

(Yes, I know. Yes, it’s intentional.)

 

[Scribe]

Noticing that no votes have been cast for "buff/debuff"- does this mean that people feel a spell like, say, Slow, shouldn't be a Wizard spell, or does everyone think of that as "battlefield control"?

This is my view.

If a Class only gets one niche, I dont know how Wizard can be the buff class, when we have Clerics and Druids as well.

 

[Scribe]

Maybe we should redesign the wizard with three core stats. Maybe something like Control, Sense, and Alter. Then divide up the spells between those. Some spells will overlap, of course. Say Control + Alter or Sense + Control. And the spell’s effectiveness is based on those three stats. Maybe they should be rolled with each cast.

(Yes, I know. Yes, it’s intentional.)

I think the Wizard needs a rebuild, I dont know that the playerbase or WotC has the stomach for it though.

 

[James Gasik]

Maybe we should redesign the wizard with three core stats. Maybe something like Control, Sense, and Alter. Then divide up the spells between those. Some spells will overlap, of course. Say Control + Alter or Sense + Control. And the spell’s effectiveness is based on those three stats. Maybe they should be rolled with each cast.

(Yes, I know. Yes, it’s intentional.)

What would we call this new version of the class? Space Wizard?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Noticing that no votes have been cast for "buff/debuff"- does this mean that people feel a spell like, say, Slow, shouldn't be a Wizard spell, or does everyone think of that as "battlefield control"?

no, but given the single-vote nature of the poll it's an all-or-nothing situation where it's likely that people's opinions are 'it's important, but not the most significant niche in their design' so as a result gets no votes, if it was a poll for the 'top 3' aspects i'm sure it would have a good chunk of support.

 

[Pedantic]

Noticing that no votes have been cast for "buff/debuff"- does this mean that people feel a spell like, say, Slow, shouldn't be a Wizard spell, or does everyone think of that as "battlefield control"?

I think the real problem is that "buff" and "debuff" aren't usually sourced from the same person. If anything, give or take a few unusual cases like Haste, buffs are usually associated with healing and divine magic. Debuffs go both ways (especially given the shaky line between control/debuff) but skew slightly more arcane.

What is the debuff/control line anyway? Is it the difference between straight up denying enemy actions/positioning vs. just making actions ineffective?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Only get one? Yeesh.

Controller? OK.
Buff/Debuff? OK.
Damage - Nope
Leader/Face - Nope
Monster Summoner Eh, nope.
Sage - Not with Bard as thing.
Scout - lol no.
Utility Caster - OK.

So I propose - Utility (which includes buffs)/Control (which include debuffs).

Yeah I'm sorry, but wizards just don't work that way outside of 4e. Is that what this is about?