No More Reptiles with Boobs!

[Felon]

While we're at it, stop putting over-sexualized women on the cover. It alienates half the potential market, makes the rest of us look like sex starved 14-year-olds, and raises the question of why a woman would wear makeup and a dress for an eight hour slog through an orc infested forest. Or at least put David Bowie on the cover in the interest of equality.

First off, what the heck does the word "over-sexualized" mean? Feel free to show me a cover of a recent D&D product with one such over-sexualized woman. Is Xena over-sexualized? For that matter, is Hercules?

Does it just mean "sexy"? We shouldn't have female adventurers with sex appeal? They should be more butch or something? And then all the ladies out there will be like "Oh, look at that homely, disheveled, flat-chested woman on that cover. You know, I've always secretly fantasized about being a powerful-but-unattractive woman just like her! You guys are more mature than I thought. Sign me up!!"

I find that most women feel less offended about seeing sexy women on the cover of books than certain guys do. You look at the cover of Vogue or Cosmo, you'll see a long-legged woman with lots of makeup.

Indulging in the appeal of an attractive woman does not make one a sex-starved 14-year-old. Beer-guzzling, NFL-loving, YY-chromosome truck drivers love the sight of beautiful women. Sideways-gun-holding, ex-drug-dealing, gangsta rappers like the sight of beautifual women. Never is a nerd more in sync with the most macho of men as when he is ogling a beautiful woman.

And finally, there are few greater mistakes in marketing than thinking your job is appealing to everybody. Know your audience and target it. If the market for D&D is the same as Spike TV, then that's what they ought to appeal to.

 

[OpsKT]

Huh whaaat?

It's a whole new edition and there are rules issues and class issues and other far more important things, and THIS is what ends with five pages of replies? Really?

 

[Alzrius]

Indulging in the appeal of an attractive woman does not make one a sex-starved 14-year-old.

Fixed it for you. (Seriously. I'm pretty sure the above is what you meant.)

 

[Felon]

It's a whole new edition and there are rules issues and class issues and other far more important things, and THIS is what ends with five pages of replies? Really?

YEAH! Let's put aside this nonsense talk about what's really on everyone's mind.

CENTAURS.

I mean, they got the torso of a human attached to the torso of a horse. That is TWO TORSOS. Now, if they have a full compliment of organs in one torso, what's in the other? Is there a human digestive tract connected to their horse digestive tract via a rectal/esophagal bond a la The Human Centipede? Do they have these gigantic horse lungs that aren't connected to anything?

Let's all get together as a community and make sure there are no centaurs or other creatures with unrealistic anatomy in 5e.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, I have always liked the way Reaper Miniatures handles the females in the Reptus line - you can tell them apart from the males, but their secondary sexual characteristics are different from humans - among other things, no mammaries.

Female Reptus

Male Reptus

The females look larger and stronger, and are more ornately crested.

The Auld Grump

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Hmmm, I have always liked the way Reaper Miniatures handles the females in the Reptus line - you can tell them apart from the males, but their secondary sexual characteristics are different from humans - among other things, no mammaries.

Female Reptus

Male Reptus

The females look larger and stronger, and are more ornately crested.

The Auld Grump

See I look at that, and see two males. I am a woman, not a girl, not a female, not a little home maker, a woman. I have woman parts. Most men I have met like my women parts, boobs and all. I also know I buy minis and paint and mod them all the time. I find it very upsetting that it is so hard to get a woman X mini sometimes. I want my character to look like a woman (Inless it is a guy I am playing, in less the guy I am playing is an elf, then I still might want it to look like a woman ).
I dare you to find 100 women who do not feel that breasts are a major part of them. You don’t even need them to play D&D, just live in the modern world. If I am playing a dragonborn, or a warforged and I am playing a woman, I Damn sure want to have my character look like a woman, not a damn guy with a Mohawk.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I also find it sad this has gone on for 5 pages.

Seriously, this is easily changeable fluff, not even close to the rules.

Now, if they were talking about having sex-based differences in 5E, then I would be totally against it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

See I look at that, and see two males. I am a woman, not a girl, not a female, not a little home maker, a woman. I have woman parts. Most men I have met like my women parts, boobs and all. I also know I buy minis and paint and mod them all the time. I find it very upsetting that it is so hard to get a woman X mini sometimes. I want my character to look like a woman (Inless it is a guy I am playing, in less the guy I am playing is an elf, then I still might want it to look like a woman ).
I dare you to find 100 women who do not feel that breasts are a major part of them. You don’t even need them to play D&D, just live in the modern world. If I am playing a dragonborn, or a warforged and I am playing a woman, I Damn sure want to have my character look like a woman, not a damn guy with a Mohawk.

Show me one hundred female lizards, point out all of them with breasts.

For that matter, show me one hundred male lizards, point out all of them with dangly bits.

Not all species have frontal rump displays, even among mammals. Not all animals have exposed genitalia. If it is a reptile then I want it to look like a reptile.

Parallel evolution might give you a bipedal posture - there are lizards that do run on their hind legs, and the not-quite-reptiles we call dinosaurs had a fair number.

Mammaries, on the other hand, are so endemic to mammals that the class is named after them.

The Auld Grump

 

[Nivenus]

While I'm not particularly in favor one way or another, it's worth pointing out (as I already have):

1. Dragonborn aren't canonically reptiles. Nor are dragons.
2. Mammals evolved from reptiles so it's hardly impossible mammaries would end up on reptilian creatures.

If I'd designed dragonborn I probably wouldn't have given them breasts. But it's honestly not that big of a deal or even biologically implausible. It's weird, yes, but that's about it.

Now breasts on plants, that's weird.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Show me one hundred female lizards, point out all of them with breasts.

For that matter, show me one hundred male lizards, point out all of them with dangly bits.

Not all species have frontal rump displays, even among mammals. Not all animals have exposed genitalia. If it is a reptile then I want it to look like a reptile.

Parallel evolution might give you a bipedal posture - there are lizards that do run on their hind legs, and the not-quite-reptiles we call dinosaurs had a fair number.

Mammaries, on the other hand, are so endemic to mammals that the class is named after them.

The Auld Grump

Great so you think that a dragon woman needs to look like a lizard because that is what you want. I think a dragon WOMAN needs to look like a woman. Show me one lizard that plays this game, or whose feeling will even be hurt by it.
Can you tell me if I placed 10 players who never saw those minis in a room, and asked them to pick out the woman, howmany do you think would get it right?
I really feel this needs to be killed with fire. Everyone says they want to grow the industry, everyone says equality. Then when it comes to what characters look like, well men look like men (the only differences never shown in art) and woman need to shut up when they expect the same.
Show me anything with a breath weapon in nature. It is a fantasy race it can work however you like, heck they could just be mammals. Will that make you happy, if dragon born became Draconic mammals would that end this just as well?