No More Reptiles with Boobs!

[Nivenus]

Normally, I'd agree with the "no boobs" folks - it struck me as silly on first impression and I'm usually against over-anthropomorphizing exotic races. Still, I think it would be wrong to tell women who like to play dragons with boobs that they're doing it wrong. That's excluding options from players who clearly love them for no real reason other than stylistic preference.

As I (and other posters) have pointed out, there's no real reason that dragonborn couldn't have mammaries. In fact, in all likelihood, there were mammals sufficiently similar to reptiles in our evolutionary history that one would have mistaken them for such. While no modern reptiles have mammaries and no modern mammals have scales, that doesn't mean they couldn't exist. It's weird, yes, but do we really need to make such a big deal out of it and when so many other people apparently like it?

 

[Sylrae]

Well, I strongly disagreed with the assertion that I just wanted everyone to look like men, when that had nothing to do with it. So I had to set that straight.

As for the bestial races that just look like human women in latex suits, if there's such a demand for them, I can't really say that they shouldnt put them in the game. If other people want them in their games, good for them, I suppose. But not everyone wants them, so I will hope they at least don't retcon them over existing material.

I can always say: "No Dragonborn". Just like I can say no to Warforged and Shifters (not a big eberron fan), when I'm running the game. I can opt out of a game with players who are using them, like I opt out of Pathfinder games with a gunslinger characters, or 3.5 games with ToB classes. If I really dislike an option, I can just not play with it. This is particularly viable because often I get stuck running the game; so I have direct access to controlling which options are/are not allowed.

If I ever see big breasted kobold women though, thats the sort of thing that might stop me from buying the book. Because it would be going from adding something new that I dont like (which I can ignore/not use), to replacing something old that I did like with something new that I hate. And that means that the thing I did like will be supported in this in future products as something else that I wont ever want to use again. That that, would be rather frustrating.

Art direction matters. Otherwise they wouldnt put images in the books.

[Edit]And to be clear, I've never been a big fan of the dragonborn anyways, and I'm fine with not including them, but this "Give it Boobs!" habit has always bugged me. Admittedly I didnt think there would be any female players who considered it so important to keep them.

I dont think a male dragonborn, for example, needs to have a similar build to a burly orc, I'd actually have preferred something more like the poisondusk lizardfolk or an actual dragon.

 

[Nivenus]

If I ever see big breasted kobold women though, thats the sort of thing that might stop me from buying the book.

I agree, that would be silly. Especially since kobolds have always been depicted as much more lizard-like than dragonborn.

 

[enrious]

I agree, that would be silly. Especially since kobolds have always been depicted as much more lizard-like than dragonborn.

Random sidetrack - kobolds were originally going to be mammalian, until the first artist though the specified green skin (fur) was because they were like a lizard rather than a camouflage adaptation..

 

[Sylrae]

Random sidetrack - kobolds were originally going to be mammalian, until the first artist though the specified green skin (fur) was because they were like a lizard rather than a camouflage adaptation..

2e draws them as ranging from dog/rat people to lizards, but 3e made them completely lizards.

And after Meepo, there's no going back to the old type of kobold.

 

[Nivenus]

Random sidetrack - kobolds were originally going to be mammalian, until the first artist though the specified green skin (fur) was because they were like a lizard rather than a camouflage adaptation..

I actually knew that though since I never played prior to 3e I don't usually think of them that way. It is closer to the mythological kobolds though, which are basically a kind of Germanic goblin.

 

[enrious]

I have them as mammalian in my campaigns, only they will dye their fur to better camouflage with their surroundings.

And one of my favorite 3e moments was killing the dragon and breaking Meepo's heart.

 

[Sylrae]

lol. You're a monster.

 

[Glade Riven]

But..but..think of the furries...

I don't really care, either way. I'm just not quite sure why dragonboobs are such a big deal. It always seemed like they were a race of half-dragon/half-humans that bred true.

From a design standpoint, there are other ways to draw animals to indicate gender. Giving them a bow, in heels, and/or a dress worked for Disney "back in the day" (both Minni and Daisy were originally drawn as Mickey and Donald in drag), but that probably won't work today. Larger eyes, smoother features, & long eyelashes are common methods employed, usually paired with a more slender frame. Hip are fine, because hips have to do with pelvic design in upright walking females for giving birth (or laying a sizable egg). In many cartoon avians, pectoral muscles for females are enlarged to give the illusion of breasts without actually being (mamalian) breasts (to be honest, that is what a lot of early dragonborn artwork looked like to me - bulked up muscle that gave the illusion of breasts because of what they were wearing).

Good design is about communication, and I've seen all of what I just listed above to work very well in conveying that something is female. Common sexual dimorphasisms in animals may or may not work (such as plumage, size, etc), because the bulk of humanity needs to be able to tell instantaniously at a glance what gender a dragonborn is. Boobs do help with that. Throwing in fins (which should show up on the males as a display mechanism) instead may just confuse the issue instead of clarifying it.

If you're just skimming what I wrote, basically dragonboobs pass the moron-in-a-hurry test to tell folks it is female.

 

[MoxieFu]

I can't believe it took this long for someone to mention Furries. Or in this case would the be Scalies?