D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[FrogReaver]

I think the main reason the Cleric doesn't have Pact Magic has more to do with legacy than anything else. Making a pact with a deity and drawing upon that power for miracles is a belief that exists in our world, and channel divinity is a similar ability.

Id suggest it’s more that most cultures would not classify that as ‘making a pact’ with a deity.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

yeah, sorcerers are like when the magical creature just wires you straight into the national power grid.

Ok.

warlocks are like when the magical creature is your contracted energy provider but you have to call them up every time you need your electricity turned on for an hour

So a cleric then.

 

[Minigiant]

Can they? In 4e they couldn't, and I don't recall seeing a single line of text in 5e talking about ex-Clerics.

Since 4e, another deity usually snatches up or kills you in your weakened state.

A high WIS fanatic warrior is a resource better off not wasted or let fall into enemy hands.

 

[James Gasik]

Id suggest it’s more that most cultures would not classify that as ‘making a pact’ with a deity.

Maybe. I'm not going to mention any real-world belief systems by name so as not to get into any trouble, but pacts feature in a few.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They are different to give different mechanical play styles to players.

D&D's entire magic system and multiple castersis designed to give people different mechanical play styles. Combining the two classes is just removing playstyles that people love.

But the sorcerer doesn't have a playstyle let alone compelling one, so we can safely remove it. Then the superior warlock mechanics can be expanded to represent that concept.

 

[CreamCloud0]

So a cleric then.

why do you feel the need to constantly lump them together? you don't gain anything from doing it.

 

[James Gasik]

Since 4e, another deity usually snatches up or kills you in your weakened state.

A high WIS fanatic warrior is a resource better off not wasted or let fall into enemy hands.

I'm curious where it says this. Really, because the last time I was in a discussion of "you can lose your powers", I didn't find a thing concerning Clerics, and even Paladins just have Oathbreaker as an option, there's no straight up rules regarding breaking an Oath.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes. Thus they're the same thing and should be combined.


This is just "they're different because they're different," but not how they're different. It is meaningless and circular.

Also, we already learned that draconic sorcerers can gain their powers via a pact, thus they should have pact magic, no?

The difference IMO is less about fictional forces and more about narrative ones.

Cleric - enables the telling of a story about a person the gods have enabled to heal, ressurect other, etc.

Warlock - enables the telling of a stories of those with more occult derived powers (pacts/hexes/curses/summoning demons/etc).

Sorcerer - enables the telling of stories about those who are innately able to cast magic.

You could mix and match whatever spell mechanics you want to whichever class, but that’s the reason for their separate existences.

 

[Minigiant]

But the sorcerer doesn't have a playstyle let alone compelling one, so we can safely remove it. Then the superior warlock mechanics can be expanded to represent that concept.

No. It does.
It's not a great one.
But playing a sorcerer is not like playing any other class in the hands of a skilled user.

The issue I'm having with you and many other people in this topic is saying "This is a weak play style. Let's get rid of it." instead of "This is a week playstyle that some people love. Let's make it better".

"I don't like it. Let's remove it over improving it" is a mentality I never got why it's so pervasive in D&D fandom. But it's popular in humanity as a whole.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

why do you feel the need to constantly lump them together? you don't gain anything from doing it.

Yes I do. Classes with coherent metaphysics and less crowded design space. I rather have fewer good classes than many bad ones.
And we simply could represent more concepts. If the writers do not need to write duplicate subclasses for every magical being that could be your ancestor/patron they could do more of them.