Order of the Stick: How long will they put up with Miko?

[Sammael]

Ditto. (wrt/ diaglo's comment) I just feel sad to see my favorite comic moving into a direction I really dislike.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Personally though, I'd rather have Miko's player in my group. Someone who is willing to play her character how she see's fit, not how others tell her to be.
-cpd

I wouldn't necessarily mind Miko's player mainly because I was Miko's player in one game. The DM had an insufferable Knight of Solamnia NPC that I played from time to time so he could focus on the BBEGs. I referred to the party as my "contingent", required all the other PCs to refer to me as "Lord Kavendar" or "Sir Ali", called the rogue "trap springer", took the best room in the Inns, etc, etc. By the same token he tithed, gave alms, was very considerate of his herald, and was the epitomy of gentility when meeting new people (as compared to the rabble he knew so well). He always attacked the most dangerous foes and refused to leave an ally behind, even the trap springer.

Conversely, I would, as a DM and a player, get rid of Miko. Sir Ali was entertaining because he was rarely there; only when the PCs ventured into his territory would he become involved in their affairs.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Sorry - didn't mean to be on a 'high horse'. And wasn't specifying anyone in particular. I just found it odd reading the thread how much anger/hate/disappointment/angst/(general negative emotion) there was. I'll get off the horse. But I'll stand with what appears to be the minority that is enjoying the strip even with Miko, and the 'stupid railroad plot'.
-cpd

Hey - that's cool. Different strokes and all that. I'm just (like Sammael) dissappointed to see the storyline go ina direction that doesn't thrill me like so many in the past have. I'll still read OotS but it probably won't be the first thing I click on each Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

Miko is not a member of the party, she is a villain (Yes, you can have LG villain; Norrington in "Pirates of the Caribean" for example). In order for winning to mean anything, the villain has to suceed sometimes. Of course because she is a villain she will never die.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Miko is not a member of the party, she is a villain (Yes, you can have LG villain; Norrington in "Pirates of the Caribean" for example). In order for winning to mean anything, the villain has to suceed sometimes. Of course because she is a villain she will never die.

In order for winning to mean anything, characters have to have free wll on when or how they win*. From a game perspective, if the DM decides "you don't win yet" enough times, saying "ok, now you win" has no value. Once a loss is railroaded, the wins are too and are equally meaningless.

*edit - I don't mean by saying "we win" of course, but by having their decisions fairly adjucated at the beginning of an adventure, as well as the end.

 

[Storm Raven]

Yeah, there is no way there should have been a surprise round. Everybody was aware of everybody else, and the atmosphere was decidedly hostile.

Among the game rule errors in the explanation:

1. There should have been no surprise round. Miko may have won initiative, but given that the party (or at least Belkar) was spoiling for a fight, surprise is not an option. This would have changed everything, as Belkar would not have gone down, Haley could have gotten a sneak attack or two off, and Windstriker would not have conveniently been in the way of anyone with combat ability getting to Miko before she could put Varsuvius, Haley, and Elan down.

2. You cannot combine a partial charge with drawing weapons. You can combine a move action with drawing weapons, but not a partial charge. Miko should have had to spend at least one other action drawing her weapons. Given the close nature of the fight (despite the DM railroading in Miko's favor), this would have likely turned the tables.

3. Miko is getting five attacks per round. This means that she has the Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Feats, and is at least 12th level (since she has monk levels, her BAB is at least one behind her character level). The Katana is an exotic weapon (a bastard sword), requiring another feat. That's fine (she has enough feats), but how exactly does she lay hands on herself to heal damage with both hands full of swords? She should have had to put her weapons down to use her ability.

4. It doesn't actually require an action to rage. Even though Belkar was stunned, he should have been able to use his rage ability on his turn in the initiative order. This would have made it more likely he would have been able to resist subsequent stunning attempts, and bumped up his hit points by at least 20 or more.

5. When Elan tries to give Belkar the potion, Miko hits him with an AoO "ruining the potion". As far as I can tell, that is a made up rule. While Elan would take damage from the attack, the potion would not be "ruined" - it is not a spell.

As to the style problems:

The OotS was played exceedingly stupidly. Rather than avoiding the warhorse, Roy should have whacked it with a full attack in the first round, likely killing the thing. Without her convenient roadblock keeping the characters from flanking her, and keeping Haley occupied, Miko would have died in about round three. Durkon was inept for most of the battle, doing nothing in a couple rounds. Elan was useless, but that's predictable for Elan. Haley jumped back and forth between attacking Miko and Windstriker, making her contribution useless. Given that Miko is a paladin with monk levels (an obvious conclusion), Varsuvius shouldn't have bothered with anything targeting her except magic missiles, and if the horse was still standing, should have hit it with disintegrate instead of targeting Miko (if Varsuvius cannot make a DC 20 Concentration check, he/she has no business being an adventuring wizard). Also, there is the oddity of Miko, the paladin commanded to bring prisoners to Lord Shojo, opting for lethal force as her first option when capturing them.

The real indication that this was a railroad is that Miko never missed with any attack. The strip was more convincing before Rich tried to justify it with a detailed combat sequence. All he did was illustrate that Miko should have died in about round three.

And I'm thinking that Miko's sad face in the last panel may be because she just learned that she's lost her paladin powers. At least I hope so. Any paladin in any game I run who acted the way Miko has would.

 

[Voadam]

...and would likley make up his own god and claim similar inspiration and mandate

Banjo the Capricious. A mighty lord who is amused by skull hats.

 

[diaglo]

2. You cannot combine a partial charge with drawing weapons. You can combine a move action with drawing weapons, but not a partial charge. Miko should have had to spend at least one other action drawing her weapons. Given the close nature of the fight (despite the DM railroading in Miko's favor), this would have likely turned the tables.

she has the quick draw feat too from an earlier strip.

As to the style problems:

The OotS was played exceedingly stupidly. Rather than avoiding the warhorse, Roy should have whacked it with a full attack in the first round, likely killing the thing. Without her convenient roadblock keeping the characters from flanking her, and keeping Haley occupied, Miko would have died in about round three. Durkon was inept for most of the battle, doing nothing in a couple rounds. Elan was useless, but that's predictable for Elan. Haley jumped back and forth between attacking Miko and Windstriker, making her contribution useless. Given that Miko is a paladin with monk levels (an obvious conclusion), Varsuvius shouldn't have bothered with anything targeting her except magic missiles, and if the horse was still standing, should have hit it with disintegrate instead of targeting Miko (if Varsuvius cannot make a DC 20 Concentration check, he/she has no business being an adventuring wizard). Also, there is the oddity of Miko, the paladin commanded to bring prisoners to Lord Shojo, opting for lethal force as her first option when capturing them.

yup. the horse should be dead.

And I'm thinking that Miko's sad face in the last panel may be because she just learned that she's lost her paladin powers. At least I hope so. Any paladin in any game I run who acted the way Miko has would.

looks like the nobody loves me look to me.

 

[Storm Raven]

she has the quick draw feat too from an earlier strip.

Hmm, now we are up to four feats used. She should only have a maximum of five (assuming she is human), plus her monk bonus feats (she's at least a 2nd level monk, because she has evasion).

yup. the horse should be dead.

Look at how many problems the horse caused in the fight for OotS. Think how differently the fight would have gone if Roy had just unloaded on the stupid thing in the first round.

looks like the nobody loves me look to me.

Not even the gods love her any more.

You know, for a character who is supposed to have a high Wisdom and high Charisma, Miko sure is unlikable. She's supposed to have a high Dexterity too (at least 17 to qualify for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting). And probably a high Strength (at least 13 to get EWP: Bastard Sword). How many high scores does she have? Is she an "all 18s" kind of character?

 

[diaglo]

You know, for a character who is supposed to have a high Wisdom and high Charisma, Miko sure is unlikable. She's supposed to have a high Dexterity too. How many high scores does she have? Is she an "all 18s" kind of character?

she has crossclass ranks in survival. as was pointed out with Belkar and she comparing track skill. and her ability bonus was more than Belkar's.

i'm thinking you are right. she has at least all 18s.