(OT) Hmmm Star Wars II Seen it I have! Continued

[JacktheRabbit]

Naw, Im just arguing that he was right. On top of the fact that Obi-Wan had a horrible idea of what a teacher is supposed to be.

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but it sounds like you're arguing that those who are correct get to ignore the rules. Either that or Anakin is picking up on the intent of Palpatine more so than the Jedi Council and Obi-Wan, which isn't exactly a good thing, either.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I fully admit to being Chaotic Good though. Being right is much more important than the law.

 

[Ristamar]

As I said before though, Anakin was completely correct. To think that two Jedi (when there are very few to go around) are to be wasted as rent a cops just because it will make some bimbo Senator happy is just stupid.

You're underestimating her importance. Amidala was one of the opposition leaders against the Military Creation Act. The debate over creating an army for the Republic was nearing a vote, and the council obviously did not want the Republic going to war, preferring a more peaceful way to stop the Republic from being split. They knew war would only destabilize and weaken the existing system, so it was most certainly within their interests to protect her. Her safety was their primary and immediate concern. Just because Anakin and Obi-Wan were not ordered to begin an immediate investigation does not mean others were not attempting to uncover the assassins, or that the council or senate was not planning an investigation.

And technically.... it was only one Jedi. Even Amidala knew that. *wink*

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I fully admit to being Chaotic Good though. Being right is much more important than the law.

But how do you define "right"? Law aside, isn't it more right for Anakin to follow the lead of his more experienced elder than to get pushy, even if his intuition leads him somewhere else?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I guess I don't see it as being that pushy. He gave a good reason though his tone was a bit off.

Pushy would be saying they were going to do something cause darn it he said so.

But how do you define "right"? Law aside, isn't it more right for Anakin to follow the lead of his more experienced elder than to get pushy, even if his intuition leads him somewhere else?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

This is another point that should have made the Jedi wonder. The Chancellor should not really be that big on protecting her. They are on different sides of the issue.

Amidala is completely against creating an army and using force. This means that in the end she must be willing to let the planets leave if there is no other choice.

On the other hand the Chancellors stance the whole time is the opposite. No matter what he refuses to let the planets leave.

Kind words and the same home planet aside why would the Chancellor order a Jedi reassigned when there are so few of them to a person who he would actually benefit from the death of?

As I said, the Jedi ask far too few questions. I think as a whole they are too used to using the force for all their answers. The Jedi remind of of a 15th level DnD party who suddenly have all their divination spells yanked away from them. They don't know how to be good old fashioned detectives.

You're underestimating her importance. Amidala was one of the opposition leaders against the Military Creation Act. The debate over creating an army for the Republic was nearing a vote, and the council obviously did not want the Republic going to war, preferring a more peaceful way to stop the Republic from being split. They knew war would only destabilize and weaken the existing system, so it was most certainly within their interests to protect her. Her safety was their primary and immediate concern. Just because Anakin and Obi-Wan were not ordered to begin an immediate investigation does not mean others were not attempting to uncover the assassins, or that the council or senate was not planning an investigation.

And technically.... it was only one Jedi. Even Amidala knew that. *wink*

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

This is another point that should have made the Jedi wonder. The Chancellor should not really be that big on protecting her. They are on different sides of the issue.

Amidala is completely against creating an army and using force. This means that in the end she must be willing to let the planets leave if there is no other choice.

On the other hand the Chancellors stance the whole time is the opposite. No matter what he refuses to let the planets leave.

Kind words and the same home planet aside why would the Chancellor order a Jedi reassigned when there are so few of them to a person who he would actually benefit from the death of?

As I said, the Jedi ask far too few questions. I think as a whole they are too used to using the force for all their answers. The Jedi remind of of a 15th level DnD party who suddenly have all their divination spells yanked away from them. They don't know how to be good old fashioned detectives.

Actually, his platform is that his NEGOTIATIONS would not fail. He insisted that war was the last thing he wanted until it became clear that the Separatists were not merely breaking away, but building an army. He's probably made great issue of their working together for the last ten years. After all, a good back up plan in case she does die in one of the assasination attempts is having evidence show up that the Separatists were behind it, and being shocked and dismayed by it. He could then push the Senate towards war using his "friend and colleague, Padme Amidala" as a martyr. That's actually a lot more straightforward than what he DID do. It may even have been the original plan, with the chance to throw Anakin into it merely a bonus that appeared when she refused to die.

Are warrior-monks supposed to be detectives? We've got these guys wearing a lot of hats, don't we? Mystics, warriors, monks, teachers, diviners, advisors, sages, marshalls, diplomats, bodyguards, detectives, and military leaders. Did I miss anything?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

No. I am pretty sure the attacks were supposed to fail.

1. The Chancellor would know she uses doubles. Why not just use abig enough bomb to take the entire landing platform out?

2. Why use the bugs? Those are dumb and being living creatures are catchable by the Jedi. If I flying droid can get that close to the window then just load it with a big bomb and blow her to bits.

Actually, his platform is that his NEGOTIATIONS would not fail. He insisted that war was the last thing he wanted until it became clear that the Separatists were not merely breaking away, but building an army. He's probably made great issue of their working together for the last ten years. After all, a good back up plan in case she does die in one of the assasination attempts is having evidence show up that the Separatists were behind it, and being shocked and dismayed by it. He could then push the Senate towards war using his "friend and colleague, Padme Amidala" as a martyr. That's actually a lot more straightforward than what he DID do. It may even have been the original plan, with the chance to throw Anakin into it merely a bonus that appeared when she refused to die.

Are warrior-monks supposed to be detectives? We've got these guys wearing a lot of hats, don't we? Mystics, warriors, monks, teachers, diviners, advisors, sages, marshalls, diplomats, bodyguards, detectives, and military leaders. Did I miss anything?

 

[Ristamar]

This is another point that should have made the Jedi wonder. The Chancellor should not really be that big on protecting her. They are on different sides of the issue.

Amidala is completely against creating an army and using force. This means that in the end she must be willing to let the planets leave if there is no other choice.

On the other hand the Chancellors stance the whole time is the opposite. No matter what he refuses to let the planets leave.

Kind words and the same home planet aside why would the Chancellor order a Jedi reassigned when there are so few of them to a person who he would actually benefit from the death of?

I think you're missing the big picture.

First of all (as Canis pointed out), Palpatine did not say he would never let the systems leave, no matter what the cost (though I won't deny that he considered war an option). In fact, quite a few systems had already left the Republic. They were trying to prevent MORE systems from leaving... the separatist movement was spreading like wildfire. To keep the Republic intact, it was vital to assuage the fears of the edgy systems threatening to leave, as well as bring those that already left back into the fold. Otherwise the Republic would collapse because everyone will have abandoned it.

Palpatine didn't want a civil war (at least, it was not conveyed through his non-Sith persona, though, of course, he REALLY did want it).

-- "I will not allow this Republic to be split in two. My negotiations will NOT fail."

As for why he would assign Jedi to protect Amidala... Sidious can peer into the future, just as the Jedi can (in fact, in the d20 RPG, it states how he can read the future like a book, and speaks of how he's basically following it like how one might follow a set of instructions). He knows certain steps must be taken to bring about a chain of events. He obviously knew about Anakin's turmoil and instability and potential power, and he knew how to feed the young boy's ego and arrogance while gaining his trust. He also knew Anakain was Obi-Wan's apprentice, which is why he probably suggested Obi-wan for the assignment. He has likely forseen Anakin's fall to the Dark Side and his role in the extermination of the Jedi.

And all the while, to others it seems as if Palpatine is merely trying protect the dear senator (though, I agree, Yoda did seem to be suspicious of his underlying motivations).

 

[JacktheRabbit]

If Yoda was a normal person in that scene he would have listened to the Chancellor say he couldnt bear to see Amidala hurt. The Yoda would have looked right at him and said, "oh puuhhhleaaassseee!"

(though, I agree, Yoda did seem to be suspicious of his underlying motivations).