Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Preview #2: Fighter

[Roman]

Here are the stats:

Valeros
Male human fighter 14
NG Medium humanoid
Init +5; Senses Perception +13
DEFENSE
AC 28, touch 17, flat-footed 23; (+10 armor, +2 deflection, +5 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 137 (14d10+56)
Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +3 (+7 against fear)
Resist fire 10
OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee +3 keen longsword +23/+18/+13 (1d8+13/17–20), +2 frost shortsword +20/+15/+10 (1d6+7 plus 1d6 cold/19–20)
Ranged +1 flaming composite shortbow +20/+15/+10 (1d6+4 plus 1d6 fire/x3)
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10
Base Atk +14; CMB +17; CMD 34
Feats Combat Expertise, Double Slice, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus (longsword), Greater Weapon Specialization (longsword), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Vital Strike, Power Attack, Toughness, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (longsword, shortsword), Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Skills Climb +20, Intimidate +17, Perception +13, Ride +22, Swim +20
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ armor training +3, bravery +4, weapon training (heavy blades +3, light blades +2, close +1)
Combat Gear necklace of fireballs (type V), potion of cure serious wounds (3), potion of fly, potion of heroism, rod of flame extinguishing; Other Gear bag of holding (type II), +4 fire resistant light fortification breastplate, +1 flaming composite shortbow (+3 Str), +2 frost short sword, belt of physical perfection +2, boots of levitation, +3 keen longsword, periapt of wound closure, ring of protection +2, ring of the ram

For the rest of the preview go and read the blog: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

How were his skills determined? Its doesnt appear to be 2 per level. Iit doesnt appear there is a general athletics skill, which is a bummer, particularly since they have perception. I hate the skill tax just to do basic "action hero" type stuff (jump, climb, etc).

He also seems to have separate feats for longsword and shortsword, another disappointment, as I was hoping towards a more unified weapon based feat system to avoid such a sink. The guy would seriously be better off just using 2 short swords. I note his weapon training class feature is based off category (heavy and light). To me at least, it seems that the feats should have been as well.

I'm not seeing a huge improvement in his fighting capability to make up for being nearly useless outside of combat compared to a caster with access to a horde of utility spells to basically wreck plots and solve most problems with a scroll. Inexplicably, he's actually nerfed in strength in some ways (power attack limit, expertise). Melee combatants still require a full round action to do their thing, another letdown.

I started a Golarion game with 4th edition rules, due to wanting to try the system and general 3rd edition burnout. It may end up remaining that way. I'm *really* digging their fluff, and was hoping that Pathfinder would go far enough to fixing my issues with 3rd edition. Comparing him to Seoni next week might give me a better picture however.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'm very disappointed by the skills, both by the failure to redivide Perception (into active and a passive modes) and by the failure to combine the athletic skills.

I'm actually surprised by how disappointed I am. I hope these non-changes aren't indicative of the rest of the rules.

 

[Nikosandros]

I'm very disappointed by the skills, both by the failure to redivide Perception (into active and a passive modes) and by the failure to combine the athletic skills.

Yep, it is to me pretty mind boggling that a "super" skill like perception can cohabit in the same game system with specialized skills like jump and swim... this last one ranks slightly above use rope in terms of usefulness.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I was hoping they had levelled out the saves, at 14th level the difference between fort and will is a big problem. Target that fighters will will charm or whatever by a 14th level caster and he is in trouble!

 

[Nikosandros]

How were his skills determined? Its doesnt appear to be 2 per level.

If you take out the +3 for the class skills and the stat bonus, he has 5 skills with 14 ranks each. My guess is 2 for being a fighter, 1 for intelligence, 1 for being a human and 1 for the favored class or something like that.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If you take out the +3 for the class skills and the stat bonus, he has 5 skills with 14 ranks each. My guess is 2 for being a fighter, 1 for intelligence, 1 for being a human and 1 for the favored class or something like that.

Bleh. I was hoping he got 4 per level. There's no particularly good excuse for not throwing them that minor bone for non-combat effectiveness.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I was hoping they had levelled out the saves, at 14th level the difference between fort and will is a big problem. Target that fighters will will charm or whatever by a 14th level caster and he is in trouble!

I dont understand the need to level out the saves at all. If he's a fighter then he's good at being tough and fighting. Everything else not so much. I think this iconic is designed to be the typical (baseline) fighter. I've always worked under the assumption that the PC's are a team and each had their strengths which covered up for another members weaknesses.

I think they kept the save progression from the Beta (Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +4 (-1 for a 8 WIS) ).

I do agree that they could have compounded Climb and Swim into Athletics, but that's a minor issue for me. I think they reversed the changes from the beta because so many people screamed bloody murder that it was soooooo incompatible with baseline 3.5. Which is sad because I liked alot of the changes in the Beta (except for the skill system, but only because I still want to run 3.5 adventures and rejiggering the skills for the Beta would have been one of the few things that would have been a pain in the butt).

If Jason and crew went too far back in the other direction, I'll probably wind up using the Beta as my main rulebook.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I haven't been following the 'Road to Pathfinder'. But I would have anticipated one of the goals was simplifying things. To that end why didn't they simplify iterative attacks so that you have a single given attack bonus, and if you want to make two attacks, you take a -5 penalty to hit with both. Want to make three attacks, then its a -10 penalty with all three, etc. It also goes someway to alleviating the (3.5) disparity between martial and spellcaster classes in that at high level, fighters could have maybe 5 or 6 attacks, but the chances are those attacks will only hit 'mooks'.

Similarly they could invert Power Attack so that when a Fighter would have had three iterative attacks (for example); instead of taking three attacks at their normal damage, they could choose to take two attacks dealing +5 damage, or one attack dealing +10 damage.

This way its not only simpler, but also adds a slight tactical aspect.

Incidently, here is my take on revising the Fighter Class from about two years ago.

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon6a.htm

 

[mach1.9pants]

The 'levelling of saves' I was hoping was not to the same extent as 4E but more than that preview shows. OK he has got a below average WIS but against a caster with 18 in the ability score and a 7th level spell he has to roll an 18 or higher if it is a will save and 9 of higher if a fort, IIRC it has been a year since I played 3E now. I is just too much difference for me but then again I maybe in the minority as I am playing 4E!