Ryujin
Legend
Sure, go the Occam's Razor route and make all of Picard's flesh rending be meaningless
You're most likely right.
Star Trek Picard season 2 (spoilers maybe unmarked)
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You're most likely right.
MarkB
Legend
I don't think Picard's journey this season has been meaningless, I think it just wasn't about the Borg queen, despite her using that particular phrasing.Sure, go the Occam's Razor route and make all of Picard's flesh rending be meaningless
You're most likely right.
No, Picard's acceptance of the truth of his mother's condition is all about him learning to understand what Renee is going through. That's where it's going to pay off next episode.
Omand
Hero
Indeed, and I also think it may provide a link to Season 3 with the return of the remaining Enterprise crew (at least according to most rumours). We could see him fully integrating with them in a more emotional way now that he has worked through some issues. Plus, he might end up dating a Romulan.
S2E3
Well, lots of B plot filler to waste time....
The Borg Queen makes a useless army of Stormtroopers. How do we know they are Stormtroopers...well, easy: they can't hit anything. Shoot off hundreds of rounds...hit nothing. Guess she somehow fixed the nano probes?
And...ok......Jariti locked out the command codes, er, somehow.......and put the code in the
Emergency Holographic Ninja? Er, what?
So sure the ship can make a holo image of anyone that comes on board. But who created and programed the EHJ? Did Jariti just make the Emergency Holographic Ninja in her spare time?
And..er...how, when, where and why did the Emergency Holographic Ninja program download the mind of 'elf Romulan sword guy'? How does the program have his memories right up to death?
And...why...why...WASTE the time with the beyond dumb scene where messed up Raffi does the little cry to the EHJ of "I know your not really him, but...I'm sorry" just to make HER messed up emotions feel better? It's like a super dumb C plot....but the season is almost over so they have to get rid of it. And good thing the EHJ has a perfect copy of elf Romulans brain so he can say 'oh he forgives you" or whatever.
Then we have to waste time with Picard playing hide and seek......sigh.
And waste even more time with Picards dumb vision memories......
And then Picard finds a 70+ year old WW2 loaded gun and shoots back at the bad guys! And the bad guys jump away in fear! What excitement!
So when Stormtrooper Goon #6 gets distengerated...er...how/why does he drop the skeleton key? Would it not just be gone with him?
Then borg queen impales Seven with her tentacle...but Raffi just gets the "light gentle toss away".....
Then the borg queen has a change of heart...and saves Seven...by making her a Borg Lite? Er...kinda ruins the character to take such a big step back.
Then everyone is just like "oh, ok, goodbye Jerati" and UTTERLY don't care as she just goes away. They don't know about the whole new Borg of Helping. But they just accept that Jerati wants to be half borg in the past forever?
And...um...er....um...so the new Helpful Borg Queen is now going to the Delta quadrant to merge with the Baby Borg there and then...um..er....save people? Does this not ALTER all of Star Trek history JUST as bad as anything else?
And everyone just lets lets Helpful Borg Queen zoom off with the ship? Um....so how were they planning to get back to their home time after they save the day? Does Lars have a Quantum Leap Time Tunnel that she has not mentioned yet?
And.....for the worst part of the episode....yup, young idiot boy Picard is an accessory to murder. THIS alone would make it impossible for Picard to ever be in Starfleet. And it's SO BEYOND DUMB that the writers think that this was somehow HIDDEN for like 70 years. Picard's mom committed suicide would be RIGHT at the top of Picards personal file.....or do the writers think it just says "oh mom Picard just VANISHED one day, no story here''. And guess Picard just "forgot" he had a mom for 70 years? Like people would say "Picard where is your mom?" and Picard would say "who?"...
The whole "Picard likes to help people because he feels guilty about being an accessory to murder" is just grade a moonbat psychobabble. The whole "you were a dumb little boy that did not understand what was going on" is SUCH a cheat. If Picard was old enough to understand words, he could have understood "your mom is sick, don't let her out of the dungeon". (But..um..er..WHY did dad Baltar Picard just LEAVE after he locked mom up? He left a crazy SUICIDAL woman...and a dumb emotional bratty disloyal kid....ALONE for like hours/maybe a whole day? And WHY, WHY would you LEAVE dumb boy Picard with a KEY? Or maybe how about locking mom up in a better place that has NO SKELETON KEYS LAYING ALL AROUND THE HOUSE to open. Is there some reason Dad Baltar Picard did not just call 911? The 24th century still has trained medical personel that can show up pretty quick if you call and say "my wife is crazy and is a danger to herself and others". )
The dumb emotional bratty disloyal could never have been the Picard of the Next Generation. See if you asked young Picard the simple question: would you follow orders OR would your over emotional helping people obsession bratty disloyal mental illness just make you do whatever you "felt" like doing on a whim? And Picard answered "I'd help people" and cry.......well, see THAT mess of a person does NOT get to be in command or ever be a captain.
The whole Picard is obsessed with Helping People is just a dumb re-write to the character to explain why in season one....For No Reason......Picard becomes an emotioanl mess of "we must save the Romulans, waaaaaa!"
But.....hope that is all over now.....back to the A plot. And go AMAZING timing that the Borg B plot did not take like 24 hours as then the space mission would have left or blown up or whatever. Just good luck Picard did not go into another dumb memory coma and wake up in a week and be told "oh Renne was killed days ago while you were laying around in your memory coma".
Well, lots of B plot filler to waste time....
The Borg Queen makes a useless army of Stormtroopers. How do we know they are Stormtroopers...well, easy: they can't hit anything. Shoot off hundreds of rounds...hit nothing. Guess she somehow fixed the nano probes?
And...ok......Jariti locked out the command codes, er, somehow.......and put the code in the
Emergency Holographic Ninja? Er, what?
So sure the ship can make a holo image of anyone that comes on board. But who created and programed the EHJ? Did Jariti just make the Emergency Holographic Ninja in her spare time?
And..er...how, when, where and why did the Emergency Holographic Ninja program download the mind of 'elf Romulan sword guy'? How does the program have his memories right up to death?
And...why...why...WASTE the time with the beyond dumb scene where messed up Raffi does the little cry to the EHJ of "I know your not really him, but...I'm sorry" just to make HER messed up emotions feel better? It's like a super dumb C plot....but the season is almost over so they have to get rid of it. And good thing the EHJ has a perfect copy of elf Romulans brain so he can say 'oh he forgives you" or whatever.
Then we have to waste time with Picard playing hide and seek......sigh.
And waste even more time with Picards dumb vision memories......
And then Picard finds a 70+ year old WW2 loaded gun and shoots back at the bad guys! And the bad guys jump away in fear! What excitement!
So when Stormtrooper Goon #6 gets distengerated...er...how/why does he drop the skeleton key? Would it not just be gone with him?
Then borg queen impales Seven with her tentacle...but Raffi just gets the "light gentle toss away".....
Then the borg queen has a change of heart...and saves Seven...by making her a Borg Lite? Er...kinda ruins the character to take such a big step back.
Then everyone is just like "oh, ok, goodbye Jerati" and UTTERLY don't care as she just goes away. They don't know about the whole new Borg of Helping. But they just accept that Jerati wants to be half borg in the past forever?
And...um...er....um...so the new Helpful Borg Queen is now going to the Delta quadrant to merge with the Baby Borg there and then...um..er....save people? Does this not ALTER all of Star Trek history JUST as bad as anything else?
And everyone just lets lets Helpful Borg Queen zoom off with the ship? Um....so how were they planning to get back to their home time after they save the day? Does Lars have a Quantum Leap Time Tunnel that she has not mentioned yet?
And.....for the worst part of the episode....yup, young idiot boy Picard is an accessory to murder. THIS alone would make it impossible for Picard to ever be in Starfleet. And it's SO BEYOND DUMB that the writers think that this was somehow HIDDEN for like 70 years. Picard's mom committed suicide would be RIGHT at the top of Picards personal file.....or do the writers think it just says "oh mom Picard just VANISHED one day, no story here''. And guess Picard just "forgot" he had a mom for 70 years? Like people would say "Picard where is your mom?" and Picard would say "who?"...
The whole "Picard likes to help people because he feels guilty about being an accessory to murder" is just grade a moonbat psychobabble. The whole "you were a dumb little boy that did not understand what was going on" is SUCH a cheat. If Picard was old enough to understand words, he could have understood "your mom is sick, don't let her out of the dungeon". (But..um..er..WHY did dad Baltar Picard just LEAVE after he locked mom up? He left a crazy SUICIDAL woman...and a dumb emotional bratty disloyal kid....ALONE for like hours/maybe a whole day? And WHY, WHY would you LEAVE dumb boy Picard with a KEY? Or maybe how about locking mom up in a better place that has NO SKELETON KEYS LAYING ALL AROUND THE HOUSE to open. Is there some reason Dad Baltar Picard did not just call 911? The 24th century still has trained medical personel that can show up pretty quick if you call and say "my wife is crazy and is a danger to herself and others". )
The dumb emotional bratty disloyal could never have been the Picard of the Next Generation. See if you asked young Picard the simple question: would you follow orders OR would your over emotional helping people obsession bratty disloyal mental illness just make you do whatever you "felt" like doing on a whim? And Picard answered "I'd help people" and cry.......well, see THAT mess of a person does NOT get to be in command or ever be a captain.
The whole Picard is obsessed with Helping People is just a dumb re-write to the character to explain why in season one....For No Reason......Picard becomes an emotioanl mess of "we must save the Romulans, waaaaaa!"
But.....hope that is all over now.....back to the A plot. And go AMAZING timing that the Borg B plot did not take like 24 hours as then the space mission would have left or blown up or whatever. Just good luck Picard did not go into another dumb memory coma and wake up in a week and be told "oh Renne was killed days ago while you were laying around in your memory coma".
I was kinda confused about how the hologram had access to Elnor's memories?
For this episode (and I guess the whole show) if we'd been Jurati building that little Borf army slowly over the course of a couple of episodes it would have had more impact.
Picard and Moon Knight both being episodes of flashbacks to childhood and their mothers this week. It's a conspiracy, I tell you! (I generally hate flashbacks and dream sequences, especially to childhood, so this was not a good week for me!)
Looking forward to the finale next week. But even more looking forward to the launch of Strange New Worlds!
For this episode (and I guess the whole show) if we'd been Jurati building that little Borf army slowly over the course of a couple of episodes it would have had more impact.
Picard and Moon Knight both being episodes of flashbacks to childhood and their mothers this week. It's a conspiracy, I tell you! (I generally hate flashbacks and dream sequences, especially to childhood, so this was not a good week for me!)
Looking forward to the finale next week. But even more looking forward to the launch of Strange New Worlds!
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I do feel we are getting into more D&D morality than Star Trek morality here. It's okay to borgify then horribly kill mercs because mercs are always-Evil. If she had collected ordinary folk she had met along the way we would have had to worry about trying to save them rather than just killing them.
MarkB
Legend
Also, they apparently would have had no effect on the course of human history. Killing butterflies is bad, but integrating a bunch of corpses into the decor of Chateau Picard is just fine.
They pretty much have to go with the pebble in a river theory of time travel at this point (changing events in the past is mostly like throwing pebbles into a raging river - not going to have a significant impact). Except, of course for major events like the Europa mission - because reasons.
If they go with the butterfly effect theory? Well they've borked things up so badly in the past that whatever future that return to will barely resemble their original one!
I guess we have a final cleanup episode, but boy did they leave a lot of lifting for the season finale.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Of course, if Picard & Co weren't such Good guys, they had the perfect opportunity to save the timeline by shooting Soong at the end of his parley - his men started shooting before he was in cover, so it wouldn't even have been breaking a truce.
Ryujin
Legend
For those wondering how they might be able to get back the their own future, the race that Tallinn serves have at least some knowledge of time travel, or at least time viewing. In the TOS episode that introduced Gary Seven they either had knowledge of, or projected forward to know that the orbital weapons platform launch had to fail, in order to turn the arms race around. Oh, and that race might just be:
Attachments
MarkB
Legend
And then there's Q, who may not be at his best right now, but he might have some juice left.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Benjamin Olson
Hero
Well I've seen the season finale. I liked it, I'm sure people who dislike the season or the show will find plenty reason to hate it.
I'm not sure the following exactly requires full spoiler protocol, but given that I'm on Pacific time, and a night owl, and presumably most people haven't had any meaningful opportunity to watch it yet at all I'll be extra discrete.
I'm not sure the following exactly requires full spoiler protocol, but given that I'm on Pacific time, and a night owl, and presumably most people haven't had any meaningful opportunity to watch it yet at all I'll be extra discrete.
Once again I return to the current vogue of full season/series plots as my major issue here. It's a fashion that has many things to recommend it, but the downsides following it to a fault are particularly striking to me when watching something that is fundamentally a spin-off of TNG, a show that was episodic to a fault.
In this episode the "main" plot of the last several episodes is basically resolved in the first third of the episode with no real major setbacks. This was necessary because when you have decided to make your story an eight hour epic you need half an hour plus of closing action to resolve your various plots and character arcs.
In this episode the "main" plot of the last several episodes is basically resolved in the first third of the episode with no real major setbacks. This was necessary because when you have decided to make your story an eight hour epic you need half an hour plus of closing action to resolve your various plots and character arcs.
So this season ended up being a more personal version of "All Good Things" where instead of taking place in three time frames, it took place in three 1980s movies spliced awkwardly together (but set in 2024).
For the first half of the finale I was disappointed. Mediocre TV writing trying to wrap up a season worth of plot and questionable aesthetic choices. Then suddenly it was thrilling and honestly heartfelt. Kinda sums up the S02. Very uneven, but the high points were pretty entertaining.
Still would have preferred 10 episodes of My Dinner With Q.
For the first half of the finale I was disappointed. Mediocre TV writing trying to wrap up a season worth of plot and questionable aesthetic choices. Then suddenly it was thrilling and honestly heartfelt. Kinda sums up the S02. Very uneven, but the high points were pretty entertaining.
Still would have preferred 10 episodes of My Dinner With Q.
S2E10 The end
Sure are a LOT of people just hanging around like right next to the rocket.
And, um, did they ever say WHY was the launch done from L.A. ? When did L.A. become a space hub?
So....Talan who was always "I just watch", had a silly plan to sneak in to the rocket launch? Do the writers not even watch the show?
The "Scooby Gang" of useless characters just waste time with the drones.
And wow, the switch places was such a great plan. Well.....at least Soong finally used poison.
So...um....Talan with all her super science...why does she not have a cure for a silly 21st century poison?
And...well, after Talan dies does Picard just dump her alien body on the ground and walk away? Did he stuff her body in a dumpster? Or are we meant to think the alien supervisors have a clean up crew?
So....super smart Soong has no back up drives? Even more so one not online.
Guess in the Kelvin rewrite of real Trek the Eugenics wars take place in like 2030?
So, Picard and crew were just going to die in the past then? They had no plan to get home? Is that right?
And Q comes back to have a talk....one of the best parts.
Rios stays in the past....awwww.
Wonder how Q got his powers back JUST when the plot needed him too...... And why EVEN waste the time having him loose his powers for no reason in the first place?
Now...Back to the Future
So Picard has everyone stand down....and sure we all know The Masked Borg Queen is Jariti. Wow...what a twist!
And we get two annoying "writer services":
Dead space ninja is Back....and now he is SO cool that...er....he is answering communication calls.
And super cheap for a couple seconds Captain Seven!
And wow, wow, wow, big SIGH. Can the moder super lazy Star Trek writers DO any plot other then "yuck, yuck yuck, sume super duper space energy thingy will bring doom" AGAIN!
And...er...so New Borg Jeriti heads to space and...er...does nothing for 400 years? She does not stop the borg. We guess she does not "save people"?
But...oh, no....a super dumb writer space thingy will destroy the Federation....AGAIN. So Jeriti zooms over to save the day. Though...she does nothing to help for 400 years. So why can she suddenly help at the start of Picard? Like why could she not save all them hate filled Romulans when their planet blew up?
But...ok...Jeriti comes along to Save the Federation...again. Um....why did she not just say so? Why not just ask for help?
And...wow....look a that waste of CGI spam as the borg shield blocks that awesome "pew pew" and the day is saved!
Then back to the dumb Ten Forward Bar. And look it's elf ninja guy!
And Picard has a happy ending and gets the girl?
AND.......we get to see Wesley Crusher?!? In his new role of Demi God! But...um "Travelers" is a dumb name for the "people" that "do things". That gray guy from TNG TRAVELED around to find people like Wesley. But the people that DO things need another name.....even the Watchers would be better (or you know, hint, hint, wink wink The Preservers).
It's REALLY to bad they could not add a bit where Wesley and Picard at least see each other. Maybe we will get that for season 3?
Sure are a LOT of people just hanging around like right next to the rocket.
And, um, did they ever say WHY was the launch done from L.A. ? When did L.A. become a space hub?
So....Talan who was always "I just watch", had a silly plan to sneak in to the rocket launch? Do the writers not even watch the show?
The "Scooby Gang" of useless characters just waste time with the drones.
And wow, the switch places was such a great plan. Well.....at least Soong finally used poison.
So...um....Talan with all her super science...why does she not have a cure for a silly 21st century poison?
And...well, after Talan dies does Picard just dump her alien body on the ground and walk away? Did he stuff her body in a dumpster? Or are we meant to think the alien supervisors have a clean up crew?
So....super smart Soong has no back up drives? Even more so one not online.
Guess in the Kelvin rewrite of real Trek the Eugenics wars take place in like 2030?
So, Picard and crew were just going to die in the past then? They had no plan to get home? Is that right?
And Q comes back to have a talk....one of the best parts.
Rios stays in the past....awwww.
Wonder how Q got his powers back JUST when the plot needed him too...... And why EVEN waste the time having him loose his powers for no reason in the first place?
Now...Back to the Future
So Picard has everyone stand down....and sure we all know The Masked Borg Queen is Jariti. Wow...what a twist!
And we get two annoying "writer services":
Dead space ninja is Back....and now he is SO cool that...er....he is answering communication calls.
And super cheap for a couple seconds Captain Seven!
And wow, wow, wow, big SIGH. Can the moder super lazy Star Trek writers DO any plot other then "yuck, yuck yuck, sume super duper space energy thingy will bring doom" AGAIN!
And...er...so New Borg Jeriti heads to space and...er...does nothing for 400 years? She does not stop the borg. We guess she does not "save people"?
But...oh, no....a super dumb writer space thingy will destroy the Federation....AGAIN. So Jeriti zooms over to save the day. Though...she does nothing to help for 400 years. So why can she suddenly help at the start of Picard? Like why could she not save all them hate filled Romulans when their planet blew up?
But...ok...Jeriti comes along to Save the Federation...again. Um....why did she not just say so? Why not just ask for help?
And...wow....look a that waste of CGI spam as the borg shield blocks that awesome "pew pew" and the day is saved!
Then back to the dumb Ten Forward Bar. And look it's elf ninja guy!
And Picard has a happy ending and gets the girl?
AND.......we get to see Wesley Crusher?!? In his new role of Demi God! But...um "Travelers" is a dumb name for the "people" that "do things". That gray guy from TNG TRAVELED around to find people like Wesley. But the people that DO things need another name.....even the Watchers would be better (or you know, hint, hint, wink wink The Preservers).
It's REALLY to bad they could not add a bit where Wesley and Picard at least see each other. Maybe we will get that for season 3?
A very succinct summary. There are many moments in this series where I want to tear my hair out at how stupid plot moved and characters acted, but at least it managed to give me some feels on occasion.
I actually liked the Wesley Crusher cameo, was really surprised they kept that thread going. Still I feel bad for Kore's character, that entire arc was just really really pointless in the greater sense of the show. The borg change was interesting, as implausible as it might sound at first, Jurati had a unique chance no other being had possessed with the borg in possibly millenia.... 1 on 1 time, without a million voices distracting her, but just 1 on 1 with a single being putting the mirror of infinite timelines showing infinite borg destruction, to point to a truth as obvious as it was hard...the borg was did not work. And so in that fragile moment, the borg found a way to change. Now personally I have always preferred the borg as the faceless cyborg masses....you don't shed a light on your horror monsters. But in terms of character change its at least a neat way to go, and its probably the only version that could make sense to cause such a change like that.
Still at the end of the day definitely a C+ to B- show for me, it had its moments, but its no TNG.
Benjamin Olson
Hero
I liked that they had the discretion to not give away that he was in the episode in the opening credits.
Since I thought the whole Traveler arc was a weak way to write-off his character back in TNG, (especially since it involved the unfortunate appearance of sullen, emo-Wesley) I'll take all the retconning of the Travelers into galactic guardians that they want to give me.
I'm going to guess that they'll at least acknowledge him in season 3 given that his mother is going to be featured. Honestly his relationships with the Crushers seem like the biggest piece of unresolved character business for Picard at this point, so if they want to feature in a substantial role I'm all for it, however annoying I may find his character in early TNG, and however limited Wil Wheaton's acting abilities may be (I really enjoy him as an internet personality, presenter, etc, but he only really knows how to play the part of Wil Wheaton).
That said even if this one weird little cameo is the last we ever see of Wesley I think it's a more satisfying last look at his character than we got with either his last TNG series appearance or his featured extra, only-lines-were-cut appearance in Nemesis.
So just a few posts above I gave this show a C+. Now that I have seen the first episode of Strange New Worlds, this probably plummets to a D. SNW blows this completely and utterly out of the water. In one epsiode, I felt more "Star Trek", and enjoyed more character interactions, than in two seasons of Picard.
Horwath
Hero
Picard season 2, bloating of a 2hr(maybe) worth script time.
Entire season should have been a (bad)TNG double feature length episode.
Well, they atleast gave Jurati some meaning in this series, otherwise completely useless character.
Raffi is still annoying, ah and we got our space ninja elf Elrond back, yaaay....
This series should have been Picard, Rios and Seven with Q and Guinan as deus ex machina
Entire season should have been a (bad)TNG double feature length episode.
Well, they atleast gave Jurati some meaning in this series, otherwise completely useless character.
Raffi is still annoying, ah and we got our space ninja elf Elrond back, yaaay....
This series should have been Picard, Rios and Seven with Q and Guinan as deus ex machina
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