Pimp my Machinegun.
- Thread starter Beautiful-Decay
- Start date
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
That might be true, though you cited a rather bad example.
Enlarge Person :: d20srd.org
"All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them."
Or in other words, "what happens to the arrow after it's launched doesn't matter."
frankthedm
First Post
Seeking doesn't help and not all miss chances stop sneak, concealment does. It is what the rogue sees that matters for sneak attack.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
Seeking
Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability. The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. (The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.)
Strong divination; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true seeing; Price +1 bonus
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Yes, I remember from the previous thread on the matter. No matter what the rogue buys or gets as a class feature, he can never dare overcome the might of first level spellcasting that grants concealment, even when he's ignoring the miss chance from it. I like to play the game in such a way where classes are allowed to function and go with RAI. But if the OP's DM is absolutely strict RAW even when it's freaking stupid as hell, rogue might be a bad idea for a class...
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
In any case, it's been discussed recently here, no need to derail this thread on the topic as well.
I suppose the OP should check with his DM on his view of this, or just not say a word and hope he never notices an issue. If he intends to not let you overcome concealment with Seeking or Improved Precise Shot...don't play a rogue. That's all there is to it. I'd sooner play an NPC class than a rogue in a game where the DM thinks that's acceptable, I really can't overstate how much such an interpretation will rape your class features.
I suppose the OP should check with his DM on his view of this, or just not say a word and hope he never notices an issue. If he intends to not let you overcome concealment with Seeking or Improved Precise Shot...don't play a rogue. That's all there is to it. I'd sooner play an NPC class than a rogue in a game where the DM thinks that's acceptable, I really can't overstate how much such an interpretation will rape your class features.
frankthedm
First Post
To me the its the RAI is WHY the seeking property doesn't help. If the rogue does not see the target well enough, he doesn't get sneak. The seeking property clearly calls out the missile homes in letting the weapon ignore a miss chance, with little to nothing to do with sight on the firer's behalf, even allowing the firer to shoot blindly at invisible critters.
It is a easy to just view the sneak attack / concealment issue from the stance of one PC class, but the rogue is just one class out of eleven. Losing sight of the opposite end of the spectrum of defending one's character from sneak attack disadvantages the other 10 base classes.
Beautiful-Decay
First Post
I've talked to my GM, he dosen't give me any straight answar. - I guess he waits and see how powerful it will become to give me acces to X sneak attacks, though he sees the major problem from concealment. So right now, I'm going to make the rogue and hope he accepts it.
So now I just need a way to trigger sneak attack; Grease was an amazing idea! - Still looking for more though ^^ since a wand costs. (as you said, it's gonna be an expensive character.)
- Seems like alot of people are discussing this issue in the rules of 3.5 (I've read the thread you linked) :/ I hope there is gonna be a "final result" someday. - Some response from wizards or something.
Thanks for all the answars so far. (still looking for ways to "split/double" the bolts fired though. (an hard nut to break)
So now I just need a way to trigger sneak attack; Grease was an amazing idea! - Still looking for more though ^^ since a wand costs. (as you said, it's gonna be an expensive character.)
- Seems like alot of people are discussing this issue in the rules of 3.5 (I've read the thread you linked) :/ I hope there is gonna be a "final result" someday. - Some response from wizards or something.
Thanks for all the answars so far. (still looking for ways to "split/double" the bolts fired though. (an hard nut to break)
Last edited:
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
3E is dead to wizards, there will never be an official response. Maybe if you ask Monte Cook or another former big time player from the 3E era that no longer works there, you can get a "very, very, very close to official but yet still not quite" answer.
The most inexpensive way to get the spells you need if there's no cooperative-minded friend is to just take the Leadership feat at level 6 and provide one for yourself. Really, Leadership is the answer to just about all of D&D's problems.
Again though, even with a caster, get UMD ranks, get items. Still useful to get SA, use as a plan B when you can't SA, and even to combine with SA. Any spell that does damage and requires an attack roll (and can thus always hit on a 20 or miss on a 1) lets you add sneak attac damage to it, of the same energy type. So a wand of say...acid splash...is pretty dangerous in your hands. d3 + Xd6 acid damage that's hitting flatfooted touch AC (hint: unless it's a monk, this is going to be 10-15 at the most generally) and allowing no spell resistance. Any cold damage, even the weak ray of frost, does +50% to fire subtype creatures. Doing 50 damage to a red dragon with a cantrip just feels awesome.
Seriously though, if he's going to screw you out of sneak attack in any form of concealment even with seeking or IPS, don't make a rogue. Whether a rogue can sneak attack is already wildly dependent on DM fiat (picking enemies immune or not immune to it), letting him have the option of MANY low level spells and effects that neuter you just makes matters far worse.
The most inexpensive way to get the spells you need if there's no cooperative-minded friend is to just take the Leadership feat at level 6 and provide one for yourself. Really, Leadership is the answer to just about all of D&D's problems.
Again though, even with a caster, get UMD ranks, get items. Still useful to get SA, use as a plan B when you can't SA, and even to combine with SA. Any spell that does damage and requires an attack roll (and can thus always hit on a 20 or miss on a 1) lets you add sneak attac damage to it, of the same energy type. So a wand of say...acid splash...is pretty dangerous in your hands. d3 + Xd6 acid damage that's hitting flatfooted touch AC (hint: unless it's a monk, this is going to be 10-15 at the most generally) and allowing no spell resistance. Any cold damage, even the weak ray of frost, does +50% to fire subtype creatures. Doing 50 damage to a red dragon with a cantrip just feels awesome.
Seriously though, if he's going to screw you out of sneak attack in any form of concealment even with seeking or IPS, don't make a rogue. Whether a rogue can sneak attack is already wildly dependent on DM fiat (picking enemies immune or not immune to it), letting him have the option of MANY low level spells and effects that neuter you just makes matters far worse.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
As for splitting the number of shots...
Out of core, there's actually the Splitting enhancement to make each shot fire two bolts. No good to you, though.
You should be fine for attacks between TWF, Rapid Shot, ITWF... Haste always helps, too.
Out of core, there's actually the Splitting enhancement to make each shot fire two bolts. No good to you, though.
You should be fine for attacks between TWF, Rapid Shot, ITWF... Haste always helps, too.
