Piracy of "The Valley of Frozen Tears"

[Eosin the Red]

I did not say you would be bad, I said you would look bad and yes, you will. Do you think Sony looks good suing thousands of people over music? Why do you think they hand pick exactly who they sue? Could it be cause they know that ultimately they will take a PR beating if they sue the wrong person?

As much as you may consider stealing your book an act that has equivalency in shoplifting from Wal-Mart, the law does not. Why don't you call the police and tell them someone is stealing from your store and you caught them.....could that be because they would laugh at you when they discovered your store was electronic? There is just not the kind of law enforcement on electronic products that there is on physical products. You have already contacted the email provider of said felon and they dismissed you out of hand. Read the writing on the wall. If it happens to WotC (via SVGames), Monte Cook, and all of the other big boys then you had best expect that it is going to happen to you.

It is going to happen to me shortly and it will be painful but it is naive to think that there is anything that can be done about the overall SOCIETAL problem at the level of individual publisher. To press the issue against a single individual only makes you look mean spirited and petty - the only type of PR that I think is actually bad PR.

Just answer this question - What do you expect to accomplish that WotC, Monte Cook, and every other e-publishing house has failed to accomplish in pursuit of someone who posted your product somewhere?

 

[mroberon1972]

I did not say you would be bad, I said you would look bad and yes, you will. Do you think Sony looks good suing thousands of people over music? Why do you think they hand pick exactly who they sue? Could it be cause they know that ultimately they will take a PR beating if they sue the wrong person?

As much as you may consider stealing your book an act that has equivalency in shoplifting from Wal-Mart, the law does not. Why don't you call the police and tell them someone is stealing from your store and you caught them.....could that be because they would laugh at you when they discovered your store was electronic? There is just not the kind of law enforcement on electronic products that there is on physical products. You have already contacted the email provider of said felon and they dismissed you out of hand. Read the writing on the wall. If it happens to WotC (via SVGames), Monte Cook, and all of the other big boys then you had best expect that it is going to happen to you.

It is going to happen to me shortly and it will be painful but it is naive to think that there is anything that can be done about the overall SOCIETAL problem at the level of individual publisher. To press the issue against a single individual only makes you look mean spirited and petty - the only type of PR that I think is actually bad PR.

Just answer this question - What do you expect to accomplish that WotC, Monte Cook, and every other e-publishing house has failed to accomplish in pursuit of someone who posted your product somewhere?

I'm not going after those downloading it.

I'm interested in the person who uploaded it on the 7th of this month, and felt he had a right to give away my hard work for free.

The people downloading it? I'm not happy about it, but I'm not going to crack down on people just giving in to human nature...

Your probably right, but in some ways, your wrong too. Apathy has always been one of the greatest killers of any moral or legal issue.

Why fight anything, when you might get inconvenienced doing so? Where do you draw the line?

I understand that PDF, music, and other media easily downloaded are not the same as shoplifting a physical item. Digital media can be copied without any form of real effort. It is not damaged by the process. They are not the same thing as stealing...

It's still wrong, and I don't have to like it.

I'm not saying that I'm right, and that you're wrong... I'm just saying that if people feel that a person defending his basic copyright is being mean, after just a few weeks of his product release, then why bother even making it?

I'm not using this as a way to feed my family. I'm just thinking about the fact that I'm still paying my artists for the art, and now I have to tell them that sombody is giving their work away for free as well as my own...

I want the guy who did it to explain it to my artists instead.


(By the way... I'm enjoying the debate. Should we take this over to the other thread?)

 

[Cergorach]

A currently nameless individual has pirated "The Valley of Frozen Tears" and slapped it onto the newsgroups...

What where you doing there in the first place?

You'll have a very small pool of people who could have pirated your product, 15-25 customers. I bought it and haven't uploaded it to a news group, so scratch me off the list of possible suspects.

I highly doubt you'll get any info from the company that provides the e-mail address, even if you get the information, it's still highly suspect. If i wanted to i could (theoretically) post the entire Malhavoc range of products on such a newsgroup and use the e-mail address monte@montecook.com and all this using an unanimous proxy. You can point to anyone you want.

Another point you have to keep in mind is that it doesn't have to be one of your customers, it could easily be someone that has been infected by a trojan, or someone that has it on his pc at work and an has enterprising sysadmin.

Think long and hard before starting any legal action, because you could easily end up being counter sued into oblivion...

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

When it comes to piracy, all you can do is hope it takes time before it happens.

For me, Big Bang 1 and SE were pirated about 2 months after release. BB 2 was literally pirated within days. Then BB 3, 4, & 5 were pirated about 2 weeks after BB5 was released (meaning a break of nearly 5 months before BB3 & 4 were pirated). BB 6 has gone 3 weeks and counting without being pirated.

For now, we have to wait until such time as the RIAA has finished building the necessary tools and processes for the rest of the copyright-reliant industries to take advantage of.

The other thing I suggest, is a guilt trip page in every document, complete with a paypal link that let's then make a donation or pay for the copy they downloaded from an unauthorized outlet.

 

[Cergorach]

For me, Big Bang 1 and SE were pirated about 2 months after release. BB 2 was literally pirated within days. Then BB 3, 4, & 5 were pirated about 2 weeks after BB5 was released (meaning a break of nearly 5 months before BB3 & 4 were pirated). BB 6 has gone 3 weeks and counting without being pirated.

This so prooves that pirates have no taste at all! ;-)

For now, we have to wait until such time as the RIAA has finished building the necessary tools and processes for the rest of the copyright-reliant industries to take advantage of.

If you believe that, i've got a peace of realestate that you might find intersting...

The other thing I suggest, is a guilt trip page in every document, complete with a paypal link that let's then make a donation or pay for the copy they downloaded from an unauthorized outlet.

Shees! You really do want to alienate your customers, and not just by posting on these boards. ;-)

People who paid for the product will hate it (will probably get mentioned in reviews as a bad point), and the pirates will just delete it from the document before distribution.

It wouldn't suprise me in the least that part of the reason that some people feel that your products are 'free' to give away, is your attitude on these and other boards. It doesn't justify the 'piracy', but when you annoy people to no extend, some feel that they are justified to be really annoying in return. Btw. i'm not the one doing the 'sharing', although you do annoy me to no end, i wouldn't cough up the dough to buy substandard 'bloated' products, even if it was to annoyyou... ;-)

The "He's being a meany" button is located to your left.

 

[mroberon1972]

What where you doing there in the first place?

Honestly? Waiting for someone to pirate my book...

About once every two days, I did a search using Google, Kazaa, and the Newsgroups.

I actually did not catch it until RPGNOW.com sent me a link and warned me...


As to what I download... (Since that is what you're getting at...)

Anime Fansubs... Low quality anime fan subs... Anime is one of my few weaknesses, and I do buy it when it gets released in the U.S...

I just like watching them before the American Distributors begin the butchering process that leads to most americans thinking anime is crap. :\

I still like to have the DVD for the better quality animation...

I just wish a US channel would start broadcasting subtitle anime 'hot off the presses'. Wonder if it could be a profitable venture?

 

[Cergorach]

Honestly? Waiting for someone to pirate my book...

About once every two days, I did a search using Google, Kazaa, and the Newsgroups.

I actually did not catch it until RPGNOW.com sent me a link and warned me...


As to what I download... (Since that is what you're getting at...)

Anime Fansubs... Low quality anime fan subs... Anime is one of my few weaknesses, and I do buy it when it gets released in the U.S...

I just like watching them before the American Distributors begin the butchering process that leads to most americans thinking anime is crap. :\

I still like to have the DVD for the better quality animation...

I just wish a US channel would start broadcasting subtitle anime 'hot off the presses'. Wonder if it could be a profitable venture?

Where the heck is my Naruto fix for this week ;-)
If your an anime fan, like me, you'll know that the biggest anime fansub distribution doesn't really happen anymore through newsgroups, instead bittorrent is used. The same goes for rpg 'piracy', other channels, not so widely known channels are used.

*cowers in a corner and thinks about how royaly tokoypop is going to screw up 'his' initial-d series*

Back on topic! ;-)

We both know you could do nothing but expect someone to 'pirate' your work, don't start pouting now. Although i am suprised how fast your 'unknown' book has hit the download cirquit. The jack is out of the box, if you get this guy, someone else will surely post it on kazaa (or something else). Instead try to 'embrace' it, your product (and probably your name) will have a lot of exposure, and who knows maybe some of those downloaders will actually buy it legally. Starting an anti piracy crusade will probably hurt you in the goodwill department, something you really can't afford rightnow...

 

[mroberon1972]

Where the heck is my Naruto fix for this week ;-)

I was a ROD-TV fan myself... Strange, but good... Also liked scrapped princess. Anyone seen when those are due in the US?

If your an anime fan, like me, you'll know that the biggest anime fansub distribution doesn't really happen anymore through newsgroups, instead bittorrent is used.

Yup... I knew... That's why I was looking for it where I thought it would turn up...

*cowers in a corner and thinks about how royaly tokoypop is going to screw up 'his' initial-d series*

Oh ya... Pain... Lots of Pain...

We both know you could do nothing but expect someone to 'pirate' your work, don't start pouting now. Although i am suprised how fast your 'unknown' book has hit the download cirquit. The jack is out of the box, if you get this guy, someone else will surely post it on kazaa (or something else). Instead try to 'embrace' it, your product (and probably your name) will have a lot of exposure, and who knows maybe some of those downloaders will actually buy it legally. Starting an anti piracy crusade will probably hurt you in the goodwill department, something you really can't afford rightnow...

Good points, all around... I know that well... I even agree to you to a certain extent. I think I have a better idea for the future, though. Might even build more business later...

Regardless of what I do, somebody is going to say I should have done something differant... Hind-sight 20-20...

 

[Eosin the Red]

I always like it when people feel the need to justify P2P programs on their hard drives. Having P2P does not make you a criminal; I imagine that most e-publishers have at least one P2P program. Part and parcel to being in the business.

Here is my two-bits....You brought the issue to the ISPs attention. Good. They did not do anything. They did not offer to do anything. Let them known that you intend to file a complaint with the BBB or similar body and then FILE IT! It does no good to threaten and then never follow through. The only people who can stop the inflow of stuff like this is the ISP....let them know, with action, that you find their lack of responsibility deplorable. When business as a collective begins doing this we may see results but I still ain’t holding my breath.

This has very little to do with apathy which I can wholeheartedly agree is another problem we face. This is an issue of realistic expectations and your perceived actions by those who buy your products. You are doing this out of spite - because you feel offended:

From RPG.net

I am currently trying to decide if the fun of tracking down the pirate and legally breaking him in half outweighs the irritation of the security tracking needed to find him, his address, and the legal cost of suing him...

Hmnnn... Decisions, decisions... Be a vindictive cruel monster or mark it up to "The cost of doing business"...

You know what it looks like in public even though you ascribe to higher motives - your words say otherwise. Wanting to break some twerp in half legally AND sue him is taking the crime out of proportion (and impossible to boot). You are best served by dropping the offended ego and it is offensive when people take our work and just give it away willy-nilly and plugging on down the road with things that have a chance of providing you with a return. Things like filing a complaint with the BBB for each and every pirating offence. Realizing that at some point you are going to become an annoyance and when some spiteful little 13 year old with a 10,000 IQ realizes he can rock your world by posting your stuff - god help you, cause it will be everywhere. We should not fear reprisals but as publishers telling someone exactly where to hit you is never a good idea. Rise above the petty and do it professionally - if you have to do it at all or you are just asking for problems.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The problem with the BBB is that no-one gives a sh-t what they think. There is a physical store here in town that has had 6 unresolved BBB complaints in the last year (which is a HUGE number). Does anyone care? No. Now multiply that lack of caring by 100 and you have the Internet.

I'm all for cracking some skulls. I think people who steal intellectual property should be in the same jails that people who steal cars are in. Then the software pirates could learn about a different type of 'piracy'. If you know what I mean, and I think you do.

Blah. My rant will change nothing. The only safe IP is one that hasn't been created yet and is only in your head. And even then, someone will eventually find a way to steal it from you.