Piracy of "The Valley of Frozen Tears"

marketingman said:
IMO you have to come on strong and let these people know that you take no prisoners type. You will use any means to take them down if you don't youspend the time and sweet to develop something else new and what is going to stop them again. from robbing you.
Technically it ain't robbery...
btw. I've seen the Silven Trumpeter on p2p networks before, why don't you go fast and hard after these people? ALthough you do give the pdf away from free, you didn't give permission for others to distribute it...

marketingman said:
Get mad, stay mad, find them, raddle their cages until they wish they never heard of you. Then sue them into extention. Do not be upset its business. Unless you randomly pull names and numbers out of the phone book to sue.
That's a bit of a problem isn't it, how do you know if your actually raddling (is that a word?) the cage of the right person? There's a greater than 50% chance that the poster has used a fake e-mail address or someone else's e-mail address, fake ip, etc.

If you annoy the wrong person you might find your self sued for harasment. Even if you have the right person you still have to prove it, and chances are that you can't. If organisations like RIAA have problems getting offender info, how the heck do you expect a first time pdf publisher to pull it off?

If you actually annoy the right person, you might be in worse trouble than before. The things people can do to to a companies website aren't pretty, etc.

If, against all odds, you do get the right person and sue them in oblivion, you'll have one less customer. I will absolutely not endorse companies that sue people into oblivion (and ruin the rest of their lives), just because they didn't follow the copyright laws. Punishment yes, but punishment relative to the 'crime', rapists get less trouble than copyright offenders.

marketingman said:
Interesting part is that the patent on M:TG will expire in five years.
M:TG although still popular isn't the gold mine it used to be. I highly doubt it will make much of a difference...
 

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Ranger REG said:
It's hopeless. Piracy is an Evil you cannot win. Resistance is futile.

But you know the saying: Evil wins when good men do nothing.
But that's assuming that 'piracy' != 'Evil'.
You know the saying "When a billion people say a stupid thing, it's still a stupid thing."? Actually that isn't true, wheter something is stupid or 'Evil' is decided by societies concensus. So if a billion people say a stupid thing it kind of stops being a stupid thing. Just because the law says it's wrong doesn't mean it is. Stealing bread for your little brothers and sisters that go hungry at night is still illegal, but not many people would call it wrong. It's a matter of perception...
 

Cergorach said:
Well, it's all nice and stuff, sticking up for what you believe in. But Moberon wasn't sure in the first place if he should do it or not. If your not sure you want to proceed with 'sueing', you shouldn't do it, to much risk. Both financially and mentaly. Talking big from the sidelines is all nifty and stuff, but your not in his shoes, so don't go giving him advice that has an equal chance to backfire.

He wanted to hear from all parties involved. And you're obviously biased in your views on copyright being "wrong".

Counterfeiting is very harmful to society, 'piracy' isn't as harmful as counterfeiting (at least it isn't proven). Comparing 'piracy' to any other crime does the other crime a disservice, and often makes 'piracy' look more 'evil' than it really is.

By that definition, Piracy is the weakest of all crimes. I'm sorry, I don't agree. Counterfeiting is a crime because it weakens the economic system, and so does piracy.

If you annoy the wrong person you might find your self sued for harasment. Even if you have the right person you still have to prove it, and chances are that you can't. If organisations like RIAA have problems getting offender info, how the heck do you expect a first time pdf publisher to pull it off?

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to find out who stole what. The technology to trace pirates is improving. I have a feeling that soon all computer activity will become traceable in the next 10 years or so.

If you actually annoy the right person, you might be in worse trouble than before. The things people can do to to a companies website aren't pretty, etc.

Well, if we were all afraid of reprisals, people would be afraid to testify against gangsters, and we'd give in to every terrorist demand out there. That's not a reason not to pursue prosecution.

If, against all odds, you do get the right person and sue them in oblivion, you'll have one less customer. I will absolutely not endorse companies that sue people into oblivion (and ruin the rest of their lives), just because they didn't follow the copyright laws. Punishment yes, but punishment relative to the 'crime', rapists get less trouble than copyright offenders.

While there are problems with crimes, I do think that the only way we will stop piracy is to make harsh penalties against it. The only way to get people to obey the law is to have serious consequences to those who breaking it. Note that I am talking about people who knowing and willingly flaunt it. But if people end up paying economic penalties for this, people will learn to be on their best behavior.

You know the saying "When a billion people say a stupid thing, it's still a stupid thing."? Actually that isn't true, wheter something is stupid or 'Evil' is decided by societies concensus.

Moral Relativism is the first sign of a society's collapse.

What will happen if IP laws are loosened? Our economic system will start collapsing. Economic evolution goes from Argiculture, to Industrial, and then to Information / Entertainment. That last part is why in the last several years IP laws have become more restrictive. IMO, if this effort reaches a critical mass, all of us will be out of a job as the cheapest countries take over and we are relegated to becoming a service economy.

I do not want our system to become over-exploitive--pay per view books, for instance--but I do not think that this means reversing prudent legislation.

Stealing bread for your little brothers and sisters that go hungry at night is still illegal, but not many people would call it wrong. It's a matter of perception...

And nobody starves if they can't get their D&D supplements or DVDs, but the person who works hard on it does suffers if they can't make money on it because 90% of the audience downloaded it for free.
 
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Point: JohnRTroy

JohnRTroy: 1
Cergorach: 0

Sorry Cergorach, he got you there...

Trying to compare piracy with stealing food for kids? Try again.
 

So if you sue someone who was not buying your product to begin with, who has driven away sales from your company. How is it .That you have driven away a customer not worth having.
If you have the wrong person why would they consiider it harassment to help you. If you have the wrong person why are they crashing the gates on your firewall.
So you do not shop at IKEA furnature or buy gaming products from any of the major publisher, you do not shop at ALDIs for food. Or Walmart. All of these companies have sued to protect themselves.

You do not see evil except in protecting what you have developed.. I do not know about the EU or EC but rapist get 8-15 min in Ohio withextra throw in that can lead to life. No one is doing time in Ohioo for copyright infringment

Good thread very detailed responces.
 

I'd just like to chime in with my reasons for not bothering with chasing pirates.

Someone once said "bad guys are bad all the time". In other words, unless you are willing to devote as much time on anti-piracy as a pirate devotes to piracy, he's going to win just because he works on his end more.

Given that most pirates don't have the time to write RPG books, I think working to stay one step ahead to prevent or punish would mean you'd spend the rest of your life protecting that one work.

For my money, I'd rather continue creating. Im not saying I *like* hearing that Blood and Fists is on kazaa (I dont have the program myself but have been told this numerous times), however, I tend to think my time is better spent creating.

Lastly, I'm not sure people who scam pirated PDFs and books would buy them anyway.

I know others have enunciated this point, but I wanted to give my perspective on it.

Chuck
 

Vigilance said:
I'd just like to chime in with my reasons for not bothering with chasing pirates.

Someone once said "bad guys are bad all the time". In other words, unless you are willing to devote as much time on anti-piracy as a pirate devotes to piracy, he's going to win just because he works on his end more.

Given that most pirates don't have the time to write RPG books, I think working to stay one step ahead to prevent or punish would mean you'd spend the rest of your life protecting that one work.

For my money, I'd rather continue creating. Im not saying I *like* hearing that Blood and Fists is on kazaa (I dont have the program myself but have been told this numerous times), however, I tend to think my time is better spent creating.

Lastly, I'm not sure people who scam pirated PDFs and books would buy them anyway.

I know others have enunciated this point, but I wanted to give my perspective on it.

Chuck


I'm falling in line with this sentiment... If I wanted to chase pirates, I wouldn't have started a publishing company...

Oh well... I won't chase 'em, but if one ever makes himself an easy target, it's his own fault...
 

mroberon1972 said:
Trying to compare piracy with stealing food for kids? Try again.
wha-hahaha... comparing 'piracy' with stealing food for kids? No, you took it out of context, i was making the point that not everything that's illegal is wrong. Other point, there was a time when 'alcohol' was illegal, but due to pressure (of both society and the inability of law enforcement to squash illegal activity) it became legal again. In america it's legal to own a gun, in most european countries it isn't. So what's 'wrong' in one place doesn't make it wrong in another, and that is based on what the people who live in that place believe and think.
 

marketingman said:
So if you sue someone who was not buying your product to begin with, who has driven away sales from your company. How is it .That you have driven away a customer not worth having.
It's called bad press and it involves people who actually bought the product.

marketingman said:
If you have the wrong person why would they consiider it harassment to help you. If you have the wrong person why are they crashing the gates on your firewall.
1.) Because your not equiped to determine if someone is the culprit.
2.) Because the way people sound in here it most certainly sounds like harasement, and they don't discuss gathering evidence (which is the hardet part imho).

marketingman said:
So you do not shop at IKEA furnature or buy gaming products from any of the major publisher, you do not shop at ALDIs for food. Or Walmart. All of these companies have sued to protect themselves.
When is the last time ALDI sued a thief into oblivion? Because that's what we're talking about isn't it? Financially ruining a person.

marketingman said:
You do not see evil except in protecting what you have developed.. I do not know about the EU or EC but rapist get 8-15 min in Ohio withextra throw in that can lead to life. No one is doing time in Ohioo for copyright infringment
After 8-15 the rapist gets out, ready to continue his life.
The copyright infringer gets sued for amounts of money that he doesn't have, and he might end up getting stuck with a huge debt that we'll have to work off for the rest of his life.

For god's sake, we're talking about a pdf product that if it sold a hundred copies would be considred a minor miracle. 100 x $5 = $500 ($400 for Moberon, $100 for RPGnow). If you sue him for that, no foul in my book, but people are
talking about sueing him for everything he's got. That's just insane. And a little bit to money grubbing for my taste, espeially when every rational person would expect that his product would be pirated.
 
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