Piracy of "The Valley of Frozen Tears"

[Cergorach]

If you reread my post, you'll see I anticipated your response.

Yes i did see that, the point that i'm trying to make, in your case, is that your judging after the fact and your on a moral high ground right now. It wouldn't suprise me that within a hundred years copyrights/patents as they exist now will also be viewed as 'wrong', but fifty years ago it was still a necesity. Judging someone is 'wrong' by your own standards is damn easy, but judging whether something is 'wrong' by societies standards is a whole other matter.

So what's your point? Are you arguing in my favor now?

Partially, i think that speeding is a greater offence then 'piracy', when is the last time you heard someone was killed by downloading copyrighted material?

Possibly so, but again, how is this salient to the discussion?

Maybe the fact that people are rebbeling against established laws that tend to only serve megacorps, and are getting ridiculous. Even countries start to review the current situation. Germany is very against the proposed european patent laws, even america is reviewing their current very strict copyright laws. 'piracy' is just the common man's rebellion these days.

I'm in no better position to knowledgably discuss the financial status of those companies than you are.

Malhavoc just hired one of the best known rules mechanics in the D20 business full time, Green Ronin just closed a deal with GW, Mongoose is diferciving into miniature games and comics, not exactly a bad financial situation. And these people make a living by making rpgs. From what i've understood, The Valley of Frozen Tears is nothing more than a 'vanity' project, as are most pdf publications (no D20/OGL pdf publisher earns his living selling pdfs). No offense, but if people who depend on the sales of their products don't take any action, why should a 'vanity' publisher take action?

ps. 'vanity' publisher does have a negative ring to it, it isn't meant that way, i just don't have a better term for it.

 

[Parrothead]

Reading this topic has been interesting to say the least. Allow me to offer my "two cents worth". Most of this thread has assumed that the majority of people are posting/downloading with malicious intent. While this may me true of some folks, my experience has been a little different. I used to be involved with an IRC channel that had virtually any RPG product available for download within days (sometimes hours) of publication. Most of the people I encountered were not trying to "steal", they were either converting it to an electronic format (as many GMs run their sessions straight from their laptops) and already owned hardcopies OR they were checking out a product they were unfamiliar with. With the D20 explosion, it's hard enough for ANY publisher to separate a product from the rest of the pack. Most of the "evaluators" I encountered purchased the products if they felt they were valuable gaming aids.

I'm not trying to say that all uploaders/downloaders fit into these categories. I just thought that authors, publishers and artists would like to know that it's also being used as free marketing that could benefit them.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

While both of these points are pretty solid, it still doesn't change my opinion that it's just not worth it to pursue a case like this. As good as I'm sure the products that Ancient Awakenings produces are, I'll bet they're still a small operation selling pdfs. If you just want to sit down with a lawyer who works with copyrights and IP, you'll be lucky if you get a full hour for $150. That's before any paperwork is filed, before a subpoena is issued, and before you see a judge. Maybe you can get the lawyer to throw in an angry letter to the guy for free, but you're probably looking at another 50 - 100 bucks. Two hundred dollars and likely little or no resolution to the problem.

Actually, the issue is identifying which pirate will benefit you the most.

For example, I've tracked down nearly 800 sources offering up Big Bang Vol. 1 for free. If they could all be tracked back to the same purchase (and there is a way to do this with PDFs, provided the online retail outlets had any interest in supporting this, and it is a simple thing, and no more privacy violating that the VIN stamped on your car), then the individual who bought that initial copy would be held accountable for $6,000 in lost revenues for my company, given the $7.50 SRP on the volume 1. That's just for volume 1. Given the patterns of release, I expect that Volumes 1, 2 and SE were sacrificed to the piracy community by one individual at the same time, and Vol. 3-5 were offered up by another individual (or perhaps the same one). That's $6k for ONE book. Overall, the Big Bang series, based on just sources offering them up for free, can account for over $22,000 of piracy related theft in one year alone.

And given the nature of the piracy community, the truth is that only a few individuals are the cause of such widespread illegal distribution. Most files end up on 0-day servers that distribute the files to the upper community members, who in turn redistribute to their own circles, etc. Rather like the way Reagan's trickle economics were supposed to work in theory. LOL

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Copying, not stealing. The only thing the creator of the work will lose is a potential customer. The creator still owns the original work and can still sell it. If someone took your computer on the other hand, that would be stealing because it is a physical object that cannot be duplicated/copied, it is stealing because you (the rightful owner) would end up with nothing.

How do you prove you lose sales because of piracy anyway? Most pirates are those who wouldn't buy your product in the first place, they only download it to spread the material.

People like you make me laugh and make me sick at the same time. Whether or not the original copy is still in possession of the creator is immaterial. If you obtain a copy under any condition without paying for it, it is stolen merchandise. The law does not make any exceptions to this on the basis of anything being a copy. Under counterfeiting laws, you're still accountable for the lost revenues the manufacturer did not earn on your illegally produced duplicate.

Nor does the law account for lost sales vs. lost revenues. If anything, the claim of "I never would have bought it anyway" does nothing but pile up more evidence of an outright intent to steal to begin with."I never would have bought it in the first place" has never been used as a successful defense against copyright infringement or counterfeiting or possession of stolen property.

 

[mroberon1972]

Actually, the issue is identifying which pirate will benefit you the most.

I tried that though pattern too.

It failed.

Why? We can't be sure the document was shared by the person who bought it. Here are some basic possibilities:

Roommate decides to upload it, without telling he person who bought it.
Customer's computer is hacked, due to poor security or trojan, and the file stolen.
The customer gives a copy to a gaming table friend, who uploads it.
etc...

Sorry, the only way is to trace is back from the original upload. Unless the person is a total moron, you're not going to be able to do it...

I never talk about it much online, but I'm a computer tech from way back. I've designed software, ran corp networks, and had my own computer repair business. It did not take long to figure out the current ability to hide one's self on the net can easily outweigh a common person's ability to trace.

We are screwed, and will never even have the effect that the music industry has.

Once again, I'm sorry. But that's the truth as I see it.

 

[Henry]

So if a billion people say a stupid thing it kind of stops being a stupid thing.

Nope - bell-bottom pants were stupid originally, they were stupid when several celebrities attempted to bring them back in the mid 1990's, and they're stupid now.

 

[HellHound]

Roommate decides to upload it, without telling he person who bought it.
Customer's computer is hacked, due to poor security or trojan, and the file stolen.
The customer gives a copy to a gaming table friend, who uploads it.
etc...

VERY true. I have a close friend who's system was hit by a malware software that opened several of his directories for download from a 'secret' IRC channel. The directories that were opened up in this way included a significant number of legitimately paid for PDFs and software - all of which are now in circulation on the net. He was someone who bought a LOT of products as soon as they were released, not realizing that they were then being redistributed almost immediately from his system into the pirate networks.

That is one of the primary reasons that in Canada, it is not illegal to have a file in a directory that is shared through any means including Peer to Peer softwares.

 

[Henry]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I thought I would have to point this out, the majority of posters on this forum being professionals and all, but let's please keep the tone civil, all right? There are ways to discuss this that DON'T involve name-calling.

 

[mroberon1972]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I thought I would have to point this out, the majority of posters on this forum being professionals and all, but let's please keep the tone civil, all right? There are ways to discuss this that DON'T involve name-calling.

Huh?

 

[marketingman]

Cergorach,
Ok Bottem Left side of the home pace I will try and capute it for you
For Webmasters
» Syndicate our content for free
This is above the About Us