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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
So your premise is they will change something once, either now or later, depending on feedback, but then not change it again in 2024's version of Xanatahars? There are no incremental changes? I am not sure the 2014 progression agrees with that
Why would they change it again if everyone votes that it's good? If you want them to change it, you need to let them know that you actually don't like it.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It's not that kind of vote. You vote satisfied to tell them you approve of the general improvement concept, and then you use your comments section to tell them what would be even better. I am saying if you vote not satisfied, you're saying go back to the 2014 version no matter what's in the comments because they won't proceed without at least around 70% saying satisfied. With a satisfied but not very satisfied vote, they will read your comments and may make it even better.

Given that, a satisfied vote is your best bet if you think it was an improvement.
People are lazy. The odds of enough people to make a difference taking the time to write in the comments is between slim and none. Clicking a vote, though, that's easy and everyone will do that.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
People are lazy. The odds of enough people to make a difference taking the time to write in the comments is between slim and none. Clicking a vote, though, that's easy and everyone will do that.
You're now responsible for everyone elses vote with your vote? No, you can't be the "no lesser of two evils" guy AND the "I vote based on how others might vote" guy. Those are mutually exclusive principals.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
You're now responsible for everyone elses vote with your vote?
No. Just my own, which I have to use with the best information available to me. I am not going to be a hypocrite and vote that I approve of something that I don't approve of. I have too much integrity for that.
No, you can't be the "no lesser of two evils" guy AND the "I vote based on how others might vote" guy. Those are mutually exclusive principals.
I didn't say that's why I vote the way that I do. I said it to counter your suggestion that people would suddenly change human behavior in order to write in enough comments to make a difference. They won't, so even were I to lack the integrity to vote my convictions, it still wouldn't make a difference.

And before you or someone else suggests that I am saying that they lack integrity if they vote for the lesser of two evils, if that's what they believe is the best way to use their vote, then they are following their convictions by doing so. There's no lack of integrity there. It would just violate MY integrity for ME to vote that way.
 

mamba

Legend
Why would they change it again if everyone votes that it's good? If you want them to change it, you need to let them know that you actually don't like it.
because that is how incremental changes work, you improve upon it, then you improve upon it again

Xanathar and Tasha's also tweaked things, I assume some of them were playtested before as well
 

mamba

Legend
No. Just my own, which I have to use with the best information available to me. I am not going to be a hypocrite and vote that I approve of something that I don't approve of.
I see it as voting for something I prefer, which really is what it boils down to de facto anyway
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
because that is how incremental changes work, you improve upon it, then you improve upon it again
But if 70%+ like it, there's nothing to improve on. Only if it doesn't get enough to pass with flying colors have they said that they improve upon it. The ideal vote percentage is 60%-69% which is their number for another iteration of the ability. 70% or more and we are stuck with it as is. At 60%-69% it just doesn't make the 2024 PHB, but we get that next improvement you are mentioning there.
Xanathar and Tasha's also tweaked things, I assume some of them were playtested before as well
Not that I saw. Most of Xanathar's was just a release by them. Maybe all of it. I can't remember if any of it got playtested in advance.
 


mamba

Legend
But if 70%+ like it, there's nothing to improve on.
You are not the only one voting, so you have little influence on where it ends up either way.

Only if it doesn't get enough to pass with flying colors have they said that they improve upon it. The ideal vote percentage is 60%-69% which is their number for another iteration of the ability. 70% or more and we are stuck with it as is. At 60%-69% it just doesn't make the 2024 PHB, but we get that next improvement you are mentioning there.
ha, you are more optimistic about what happens with those changes than I am. I expected them to be reiterated now, and anything that isn't / wasn't is tossed out for good, not something they revisit for 2024's Xanathar in 2026 or whenever.

Not that I saw. Most of Xanathar's was just a release by them. Maybe all of it. I can't remember if any of it got playtested in advance.
I meant things that were in 2014 5e and got changed in Xanathar / Tasha
 

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