D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Druid discussion

[Leatherhead]

While I agree with the general point about design by committee, I think you're underselling the 2014 Druid, whose status as the least played class may be due more to representing a relatively niche concept than to poor execution. While there's certainly room for improvement, my experience at least has been that players interested in exploring the Druid's niche have enjoyed the class.

I would like to point out that both Rangers and even Barbarians are decently popular enough (trailing just behind the core-4 picks), while sharing similar themes of "natural-world focused" characters. I dare say that the niche is being held back by the mechanics more so than the other way around.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Using monster stat blocks but also butchering them up with the player's stats solves none of the core problems with Wildshape whatsoever.

Wildshape is still too complex for the good of the general player base to do more than windowshop dreaming about how cool it would be to be a bear; and still bogging down the entire system by calling out to other books, in a system where the monster math itself is being radically changed under our noses.

There are two mitigations here:

• You can only transform into a set number of beasts and ones you've prepared in advance. No dumpster diving and you should have your prep done between games.
• PHB only. No delving through the MM.

 

[Leatherhead]

There are two mitigations here:

• You can only transform into a set number of beasts and ones you've prepared in advance. No dumpster diving and you should have your prep done between games.
• PHB only. No delving through the MM.

Those mitigations are mitigated themselves.

• You can change out the prepared beast forms with a long rest. For instance, if you suddenly need to have an aquatic form, you can forget how to be a wolf mid session and instead learn how to become a shark, mid-session.
• The PHB only restriction is given a waver two paragraphs after it was introduced. Presumably because it would be more problem than it's worth to include a zoo's worth of animal options from cr 0-6 in the PHB.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Those mitigations are mitigated themselves.

• You can change out the prepared beast forms with a long rest. For instance, if you suddenly need to have an aquatic form, you can forget how to be a wolf mid session and instead learn how to become a shark, mid-session.
• The PHB only restriction is given a waver two paragraphs after it was introduced. Presumably because it would be more problem than it's worth to include a zoo's worth of animal options from cr 0-6 in the PHB.

And I honestly don't care about those mitigations. If you are the sort to know which forms you need to prepare in advance you can prepare hyperlinks or index cards so we don't have to flip through the books in play so there isn't a problem. And if you aren't you won't change them at a long rest. The fundamental problem that needed dealing with was slowing everything up by looking up the forms and wasting everyone's time at the table because of it.

 

[Kobold Stew]

"The creature statistics section of the 2024 Player’s Handbook will include more Beast options than the 2014 book contains."

For me, how they implement this sentence is going to be what makes or breaks the Druid. And sadly, they seem not to be showing their hand before publication.

They are making it so complex compared to other classes:
a. non-moon druids will have up to 12 beast stat blocks with CRs of 1/4, 1/2 or 1.
b. moon druids additionally will have up to 12 stat blocks with CRs of 1-6.

There will not be 96 beasts in the PHB (nor should there be). But:
i. I want there to be cool options to work up to (someone mentioned the CR 8 T-Rex, which won't happen, but Triceratops or Mammoth is achievable); and
ii. I want to have viable forms that gain in power as I level up, so that I can choose always to keep the same shape, be it a wolf or bear or whatever.

For both of those to happen, we need the option of rooting through the MM to find weird new forms (i.; that's there now, thankfullt requireing DM permission), but also 8 different forms of some of the land animals we had to start (wolf, bear, and maybe six versions of the flyers). It's going to need space in the appendix to the PHB to allow that sort of flexibility. Even if they excluded Moon druids from consideration, having three versions (cr 1/4, 1/2, and 1) of a half dozen basic forms would be needed for me to buy into this.

 

[mellored]

I haven't seen the new beasts. But I'm a bit worried the attack bonus will fall behind at high levels.

They have damage, AC, saves, and (T)HP scaling. But nothing about to-hit.

At level 18 when your proficiency bonus is Wis+6, you turn into a level 6 beast that has Str+3.

 

[mellored]

Moon Druid should be able to cast Conjure Animals in wild shape.

 

[mellored]

Heck, just give them all the Animals spells.


3 Starry Wisp* Cure Wounds, Speak with Animals
Moonbeam, Summon Beast
5 Vampiric Touch, Conjure Animals
7 Fount of Moonlight*, Dominate Beast
9 Dawn, ???
...
16 Animal Shapes
18 Shapechang

 

[Horwath]

Just have templates that all have same STR, DEX and CON scores(depending on size): you just take visuals that you want and movement mode that goes with that specific look

1st level:
small and medium, can have climb or swim speed.

4th level:
tiny and large

8th level:
You can have fly speed form or burrow speed

6th level moon druid:
huge form

10th level moon druid:
elemental form

14th level moon druid:
gargantuan size

 

[UngeheuerLich]

"The creature statistics section of the 2024 Player’s Handbook will include more Beast options than the 2014 book contains."

For me, how they implement this sentence is going to be what makes or breaks the Druid. And sadly, they seem not to be showing their hand before publication.

They are making it so complex compared to other classes:
a. non-moon druids will have up to 12 beast stat blocks with CRs of 1/4, 1/2 or 1.
b. moon druids additionally will have up to 12 stat blocks with CRs of 1-6.

There will not be 96 beasts in the PHB (nor should there be). But:
i. I want there to be cool options to work up to (someone mentioned the CR 8 T-Rex, which won't happen, but Triceratops or Mammoth is achievable); and
ii. I want to have viable forms that gain in power as I level up, so that I can choose always to keep the same shape, be it a wolf or bear or whatever.

For both of those to happen, we need the option of rooting through the MM to find weird new forms (i.; that's there now, thankfullt requireing DM permission), but also 8 different forms of some of the land animals we had to start (wolf, bear, and maybe six versions of the flyers). It's going to need space in the appendix to the PHB to allow that sort of flexibility. Even if they excluded Moon druids from consideration, having three versions (cr 1/4, 1/2, and 1) of a half dozen basic forms would be needed for me to buy into this.

I don't see any reason for a player to look through other resources than the PHB.
I do think that allowing "upgrade" beast forms would be good. Maybe, something like: as a moon druid if you chose a form of lower CR than you could change to, you increase str and dex by the difference.