D&D 5E Playtested dat 5e at Gencon.

[Rhenny]

I would expect cantrips to be kept in limited number, but the second response instead is unexpected. It actually breaks the limitation set by the previous.

Upon further investigation, Plaguescarred and mrpopstar have agreed that the wording in the mage's class description goes out of its way to differentiate cantrip from spell; therefore, they now agree that the rules suggest that cantrips cannot be learned or scribed. The only way to gain them is to take the Initiate feats. (It definitely needs to be clarified)

 

[jodyjohnson]

The rules are fairly clear, but what you can house rule is completely open.

5e is shaping up to be a pre-3.0 "Rules lawyers to the back of the bus edition".

I'd only limit cantrips because some players can't handle 10-30 options per round - analysis paralysis.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Upon further investigation, Plaguescarred and mrpopstar have agreed that the wording in the mage's class description goes out of its way to differentiate cantrip from spell; therefore, they now agree that the rules suggest that cantrips cannot be learned or scribed. The only way to gain them is to take the Initiate feats. (It definitely needs to be clarified)

But that means that cantrips, which are supposedly the easiest to remember and cast, are impossible to learn. Are there no cantrip scrolls? Can no one ever teach cantrips? How do 1st-level mages learn cantrips in the first place?

This isn't a problem in Pathfinder because you have a limit of how many you can prepare per day. Maybe D&D5 should introduce something like that.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I think cantrip are spells in all respect (How To Play PDF pg. 23) but the reason i agree they cannot be gained automatically or copied to your spellbook is because they don't have a level and spells gained or copied this way must be of a level that you can cast.

Hopefully this will be clarified in the future.

 

[keterys]

Cantrips are so easy to learn that anyone can learn them by spending a feat.

 

[Warbringer]

Upon further investigation, Plaguescarred and mrpopstar have agreed that the wording in the mage's class description goes out of its way to differentiate cantrip from spell; therefore, they now agree that the rules suggest that cantrips cannot be learned or scribed. The only way to gain them is to take the Initiate feats. (It definitely needs to be clarified)

The very first line in how to play for cantrips..."cantrips are spells...". They are also listed in the spell list for a Mage (or whichever caster) and the argument they are not "0" level spells and they must be off a "level" the caster can cast is a little weak ..

Now, I think the big red flag is creating scrolls with cantrips take 0 time, cost zero resources (infinitely adding 0 = 0) means two mages in a party de facto know each others cantrips and can cast them at will (effectively)

If someone wants to use a choice of a new spell as a cantrips choice, I say more power to them

 

[Falling Icicle]

I do not have a balance problem at all.

I have a problem with the image of spellcaster apprentices shooting lasers freely.

I'm just the opposite. I have a problem with a wizard having to use a crossbow because he can't even use the most minor magics at-will.

 

[mlund]

I'm just the opposite. I have a problem with a wizard having to use a crossbow because he can't even use the most minor magics at-will.

More over, lasers really aren't great shakes and make terrible weapons.

Seriously, though, I can illuminate an area at-will and it takes, what, a couple of D-Cell Batteries? Look at how compact a Taser is some time. The amount of energy involved in most evocation cantrips is pretty trivial compared to basic chemical and physical forms of energy - even those readily available in medieval times. Their selling point is that they are renewable resources and rather flashy compared to how mundane folks do things with torches or slings and whatnot.

Personally, I loved the idea of Cantrips at low levels as weaponizing things that were otherwise useful in laboratory research - the basics of lighting, heating, cooling, electrifying, or corroding things are the fundamental building blocks of the Evocation and Conjuration schools. They aren't Buck Rogers ray-guns that zap monsters and make them disappear.

And hey, if you don't like at-will attack spells you don't have to use them. Help yourself to a crossbow. Just don't begrudge people at the table that do. Likewise if someone plays a mage who wants to conserve his arcanum for meaningful tasks and employs mundane means for mundane tasks (like shooting kobolds) then he should be able to go whole-hog without seeking your approval.

- Marty Lund

 

[dd.stevenson]

This will probably never happen, but I wish they would rewrite the pew pew cantrips so they were expended on a 1 roll on a d6, but did considerably better damage than they do currently.

 

[variant]

• Magic missile starting out with three missiles is a good idea. At-will spells are not so great. My friend (who played a wizard) really disliked having an at-will spell (I believe it was ray of frost). He said that it resulted in him defaulting to the at-will spells rather than using his crossbow or another weapon.

He could always take non-combat cantrips and use a crossbow.

This will probably never happen, but I wish they would rewrite the pew pew cantrips so they were expended on a 1 roll on a d6, but did considerably better damage than they do currently.

To have a 1 in 6 chance of failing at the simplest spell? That has to be the crappiest Wizard in existance.