Please rate Monkey Grip [2002 Thread]

[maddman75]

Guess it must just be because its the kind of thing that my 15 year old munchkin players would think is 'kewl'. It is much more video game/anime than fantasy fiction, which is my frame of reference.

One of my favorite changes in 3e was making two weapon fighting no longer so uber. Guess I just don't like anything that makes it easier. In 2e days *every* character went for TWF it seemed.

 

[Mistwell]

Guess it must just be because its the kind of thing that my 15 year old munchkin players would think is 'kewl'. It is much more video game/anime than fantasy fiction, which is my frame of reference.

One of my favorite changes in 3e was making two weapon fighting no longer so uber. Guess I just don't like anything that makes it easier. In 2e days *every* character went for TWF it seemed.

So you have two complaints it seems: 1) You think its munchkinlike, despite the fact that it is clearly inefficient for min/maxing and, as everyone in this thread has already stated, it is used primarily for ROLEPLAYING PURPOSES, and 2) It's too young kid/video game/anime (and if you are implying anime is a young kid thing, I'm gonna have to disabuse you of that quick), and not fantasy fiction enough for you (despite Conan, Krull, Beastmaster, Red Sonja, Frank Frazetta art, the early lead figures for this game, and most of the rest of the really old fantasy fiction that went into D&D was all in favor of people walking around with two big swords for purposes of it looking fun, not to mention modern fantasy fiction that portrays it such as the Scorpion King).

Like I said, I think your thinking has gotten OLD (or maybe you are just snobbish about this subject), and you have lost some of the fun that is in this game. I'm 33, and I think walking around with a big weapon in each hand is neat looking, for roleplaying purposes. Just like I think playing a race other than Human has a neat-looking factor to it. Big two-weapon-fighting was just as neat looking in Men In Black II recently as it was in the olden days of fantasy fiction.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Monkey Grip is really silly. It's about as broken as a ranger using two weapons (in fact, it's shafted). But it's not physically possible, and completely unrealistic. I might let a PC use this, but only if they are really good at begging, and they have to have a magic weapon specifically designed for this.

I'm 23, and watch DBZ. This is sillier than the Fusion dance.

 

[the Jester]

Well, this old fogie (31) voted cool for style.

I don't think monkey grip is very realistic; but then, in dnd, WHAT IS???

Ever see a human wield a mattock/maul of the titans?

The "mythical" figure wielding a sword bigger than him has a long tradition in my games; in the 1e days one of my campaign's main villains used a humungous weapon passed down from the distant giant ancestors he had. In all the pitchers I drew of him the sword was bigger than him. When the pcs defeated him they couldn't use it (not strong enough- he was Str 23).

Nowadays there's an actual mechanic to use for this sort of thing. Yay! I don't have to arbitrarily tweak things to justify my bad guy! I can make them work within the rules, and- hey, check it out- pcs can do the same thing too if they want!

Cool!

As to realism- really, now.

 

[Mistwell]

Monkey Grip is really silly. It's about as broken as a ranger using two weapons (in fact, it's shafted). But it's not physically possible, and completely unrealistic. I might let a PC use this, but only if they are really good at begging, and they have to have a magic weapon specifically designed for this.

I'm 23, and watch DBZ. This is sillier than the Fusion dance.

Not physically possible? So let me see if I understand this. It is physically possible to hold a bastard sword in each hand and attack, but not a greatsword in each hand? And let's not even talk about how physically possible it is to use magic.

And as for it being broken - once again, it does NOT help your character out much, beyond role playing. You do not increase your average damage by using this feat, in most circumstances (same with the Ranger's two-weapon fighting, but that is a different discussion). If you are going to call something broken, you have to back it up with some evidence.

 

[maddman75]

Its just a taste thing with me. The question 'don't you think a guy with a six foot sword in each hand would look cool'? No. I don't. I think he would look foolish, ungainly, and while he might be able to heft them up I doubt he could hit anything with them.

As far as anime, I don't have a problem with it. In fact just got talking into getting Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust and thought it was great. Just don't like it in D&D.

 

[Epametheus]

I think he would look foolish, ungainly, and while he might be able to heft them up I doubt he could hit anything with them.

Actually, when ya factor in the -6 penalty to each attack, he probably won't hit anything with them.

 

[Archer]

Wouldn't that be -8 penalty because you are using monkey grip twice at -2 each time plus the -4 for TWF if you have ambidex as well?

As has already been stated, it is statisically better to use a normal sized weapon and power attack in any case. 2.5 avg damage increase vs 4 avg damage increase for power attack.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

When I called it "broken as a ranger" I was being sarcastic. I rarely see people consider rangers to be overpowered.

Lifting a greatsword with one hand is certainly possible. Actually using it effectively... no, unless it's a mithral greatsword or something like that. Using two greatswords, one in each hand?! No way!

 

[Yonshalmnu]

Ok, I think it has been established quite clearly at this point that DnD is not reality. However, feats like these, that stray from realism, are like spices on a food. Too many of them and the food becomes inedible. Fantasy works best when there is a firm basis in realism, notice I say realism, not reality. There has to be a somewhat coherent basis. Too many of feats like monkey grip, which are made to enhance the freedom of choices for the player, can make the game distorted and reduce it to base min-maxing which everybody professes to dislike. So everything in moderation! Otherwise we can all go play Xanth! I loved those books by the way, nothing against Xanth.

Yonshalmnu sur ga Moriquai