[Polyhedron] Are women interested in this type of fantasy?

Kobold Avenger said:
You know a male that needed to be resuced in some circumstance, need not be ineffectual and weak. He could have actually been a pretty tough guy, but was just a little stupid when he got himself into a fight he couldn't handle.
Oh, no problems in that case. But this needs to be clearly established in the storyline, otherwise you still have the same problems. In Flash Gordon you know how the women look like right? If you would find similar males for the female protagonist, something would quickly seem wrong to most people.

Ah, with just one adventure, it was not like I was going to buy Dungoen/Poly anyway (first one I will not buy in 20 issues! Good work Paizo!).

Rav
 

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Kahuna Burger said:

So the magazine includes one throwaway line to indicate that this genre isn't an excuse to sideline female characters and has a cover picture with a (probably well proportioned and dressed in a sexy if not cheesecake fashion) woman on it, and this kind of overreaction is what we get? I think I can spot the hypersensitivity around here, and its not from woman or article writers who realize there are women in the hobby... :rolleyes: If you are so threatened by the idea of someone leaving the possibility open for a plot where a woman rescues a man say it... but you can stop pretending it has anything to do with how women think - its all about how SOME men apparently think.

Kahuna burger

Kahuna, I'm not being hypersensitve. I'm not even threatened. Let's not escalate this.

I am simply asking if women in general are attracted to ineffectual men (the magazine's words, not mine). Its simply a curiosity.
 

Here's a decent definition from dictionary.com:
An artistic and intellectual movement originating in Europe in the late 18th century and characterized by a heightened interest in nature, emphasis on the individual's expression of emotion and imagination, departure from the attitudes and forms of classicism, and rebellion against established social rules and conventions.

Interesting how at least one source respected enough to be on dictionary.com completely missed the point and equated romanticism with the modern concept of romance. :rolleyes: To quote Handy "Read a book!"
 


"there is no need to enforce such gender steriotyping in a modern RPG; it is just as proper to have heroic female characters save handsome (but somewhat ineffectual) males as the reverse.
Seems the word "somewhat" is being glossed over here. Han Solo was "somewhat" ineffectual at the first of Jedi. Leia still tried to rescue him.

I think we can state that being a big powerful hero is not the only thing that makes a man attractive (just ask Bill Gates). Likewise the captured guy could be a huge powerful man who got himself captured because he was innefectual at fighting off armies with his fist. It all goes by how you present it, and you will never get any type of all encompassing answer because everybody is attracted to different things and many people's ideas of what is attractive may change over time. One thing about these stories was that it was always a beautiful female that was rescued, would the action heroine fall in love with the innefectual prince if he also happened to look like Fabio instead of the Emo Phillips look that seems to be immplied here? Ineffectual doesn't have to mean weak willed goofball who cowers in the corner yelling "not in the face", it could just be a person who got in over their heads and was powerless to stop what was going on.
 

Dr. Strangemonkey said:
Richard the Lionhearted had to be rescued from imprisonment in Germany, I'm certain women found him just as sexy as they did before and vice versa.

Much good it would have done them. Like quite a few great conquerors, he was as queer as a three-dollar bill. And his rescue was effected (or at least the romantic part of it) by one of his romantic interests (a troubadour, if memory serves.)

But this does remind me that in my experience men playing gay characters are interested in male NPCs they have rescued, but men playing female characters are not.

Regards,


Agback
 

Here are some interesting links for those who want to read more about what science has to say about gender differences:

http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/brainsx.html (Ignore the sarcastic web address if you are frail and humorless)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70E1EF93A5C0C7A8DDDAF0894DB404482 (You may need to register to access this one, the last paragraph, while not informative, is perhaps the most important)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/04/990422061106.htm

http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html

http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sdifref.html (References for those REALLY interested in the subject :) ).


Anyone interested in some reading should pick up "Sex on the Brain" by Deborah Blum. While she is not a scientist, she is a science reporter and makes an enjoyable read while bringing together quite a bit of research and data on the subject.

Also, even a cursory knowledge of medicine and psychology shows that men and women are distinctly different in their reactions to virtually every kind of brain trauma, as well as having unbelievably disparate psychological profiles. An interesting note I found in one Rice University study is that 80% of all psychotropic drugs are taken by females.
 

This happened in one of my games my female elf had to go into an enemy controlled country and rescue a man who had helped her party in the past. He had been taken as a slave when he tried to escape they broke and mangled his hand when he tried to use his bardic skill they cut out his tongue.

Not only did she rescue him but she feel in love with him.

I don't understand the big deal even good strong smart people can get captured the odds can be against you it doesn't make you weak.

It would seem to be that stupid foolish people would be undesirable no matter what sex they were.
 

All right, I think an interesting question is developing out of this, why are all the women asked by men saying that they wouldn't be attracted to someone they rescued on an adventure?

This seems innately counterintuitive to me.
I mean at the very least I would think that there isn't enough information in this question. Though that in itself poses some issues, perhaps men answer yes when given too little information and women no? There are other variables here too, we have yet to here from a women who has asked another women what she would prefer, and we have yet to hear a woman construct a desirable rescue scenario.

Which there must be, since fiction written for women, ei romance novels, frequently features situations in which women must rescue men. And there have certainly been a number of situations in which women have rescued men they have then developed relationships with. The most cliched of which is the nurse to patient scenario.

Though it is also possible of course, that what is really at stake in this is not the idea of nurturer or protector, both of which roles are and must be shared in our and every other society save the most pathologically gender limiting, but more shallow issues involving courtship. Since the essential end of a romance story of the type being discussed is some sort of consummation.

I also have to say that ineffectual is an unfair bias in the story. Very very very rarely are there ineffectual characters in such stories from either the perspective of the rescuer or the rescued. At the very least the rescued will have access to some sort of resource that the rescuer can use, land, connections, physical beauty, or emotional investment are the most common.

Plus, there is something innately weird about the idea that you should be attracted to someone you are rescuing. Shouldn't you just be rescuing someone because they need the help and you can deliver it? And given that why should you take into account the fact that you rescued them in a seperate question of attraction?

I suppose what really worries me about this is that within the question of attraction with regard to rescuing I sense the more disturbing question of would you be motivated to rescue someone at all.

'Cause I have to say that any woman who becomes unattracted to a love interest she rescues from the clutches of an evil tyrant who violated that interest's home with overwhelming force and took the interest isn't much of a human being much less a woman.

Oh and Kudos to the twist on my already twisted reference to Richard. Though for a man with a queered reputation he certainly had a lot of success at picking up wives and fiancees.

Slightly off topic, in prison populations, at least, men with less testosterone are far more violent than those with higher levels, and we all know about Hitler's singular predicament.
 
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Dr. Strangemonkey said:
I also have to say that ineffectual is an unfair bias in the story. Very very very rarely are there ineffectual characters in such stories from either the perspective of the rescuer or the rescued. At the very least the rescued will have access to some sort of resource that the rescuer can use, land, connections, physical beauty, or emotional investment are the most common.

I think this is the key here. If you define ineffectual broadly, I don't think that any men would be very motivated to fall in love with an ineffectual woman that they rescue either. If someone has no traits that appeal to you, why would rescuing them suddenly make them such a target of your affections?
 

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