Polymorph Self Nerfed?

[smetzger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but owls do not have low-light vision. They have a bonus to their spot check. None of the animals in the MM have low-light vision.

from the SRD: "Unless noted otherwise, animals have low-light vision."

Its a special quality of all animals and thus is not mentioned in the individual entries. It also does not have an EX descriptor and thus would "be included" with your polymorph.

 

[Dimwhit]

Well I'll be...

I don't doubt you, but I can't find that. Do you have a link for it? Does it also state that in the MM or PH?

 

[Kraedin]

Monster Manual, page 5, second column, sixth line.

 

[IceBear]

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdcreatureoverview.html

Scroll about half way down until you get to the Animal entry in the Advancement section

IceBear

 

[Oni]

My personal house rules solution to this was a bit of a compromise between the the original version and the errata version. On casting Polymorph Self you designate a form, for the remander of the duration of you may change form between your designated form and your base form as per the original writeup. For instance you could cast Polymorph Self and designated the form of a raven, for the duration of the spell you could switch between the form of a raven and your base form, but not other form.

 

[Dimwhit]

Thanks Kraedin and Icebear.

So here's my question. You polymorph into a bat. You don't get blindsight, because it's an EX ability, right? But no low-light vision either, is that correct? I believe it states for them that their normal vision is 10'. Is it just me, or is that silly? (Fortunately, Druids get EX abilities, so it's not really an issue for my character.)

 

[Kraedin]

They get low-light vision, (all animals do), but it's limited to 10' range.

If you polymorph into one, your vision is not limited in that fashion, as that limitation is part of the (ex) blindsight ability (which you do not gain).

 

[Saeviomagy]

I would contest that the vision of a creature is just as much a gross, physical feature as having claws, wings or legs. It's certainly far, far more of a gross physical feature than having the skill to rake someone with your rear claws once you've grappled them, or knowing just how to wrap your elongated body around someone in order to strangle them. Or for that matter the knowledge of how to swim or breathe once you're a fish or burrow if you're a wolverine. Would you still grant blindsight and tremorsense? Would you grant any of the capabilities of a beholder? Because it's flight ability is apparently (ex) despite being due to the beholders body being 'naturally buoyant'. And it's all-around vision, also an (ex) ability is certainly due to a gross, physical feature, that of having a lot of eyes pointing in all directions.

And hong - your reasoning is quite facetious. Perhaps you would ban people from staying still? After all, the only creature with that (ex) ability is a gargoyle, and gargoyles don't exist in real life! And hey! Noone's allowed to throw rocks, because the only creatures with rock throwing (ex) are giants, and... everybody together!... GIANTS DON'T EXIST IN REAL LIFE!

All this discussion is doing is proving that polymorph is still a stupid spell as written. Either it needs to have a significant rewrite, specifying precisely what it is that it grants or doesn't grant, or the monster manual needs to be rewritten with the additional ability type of (na) for 'natural'.

 

[hong]

Would you still grant blindsight and tremorsense?

A bat's blindsight, yes. A grimlock's blindsight, no.

And hong - your reasoning is quite facetious. Perhaps you would ban people from staying still? After all, the only creature with that (ex) ability is a gargoyle, and gargoyles don't exist in real life!

No, I don't think I'd allow just anyone to demand a DC 20 Spot check for others to detect they're alive.

And hey! Noone's allowed to throw rocks, because the only creatures with rock throwing (ex) are giants, and... everybody together!... GIANTS DON'T EXIST IN REAL LIFE!

Don't get desperate, dearie.

All this discussion is doing is proving that polymorph is still a stupid spell as written.

All this discussion is doing is proving your incompetence at applying DM's discretion as to what constitutes a natural ability.

 

[Kraedin]

All this discussion is doing is proving that polymorph is still a stupid spell as written.

The man speaks truth!