D&D (2024) Polymorph temp hp remain

[UngeheuerLich]

And THP.

Of course besides THP.

Although the wild shape entry explicitely tells you: "while in wold shape you gain following benefits".
I really wish the THP duration would be clarified.

 

[mellored]

Of course besides THP.

Although the wild shape entry explicitely tells you: "while in wold shape you gain following benefits".
I really wish the THP duration would be clarified.

Not quite.

"When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points.."

Doesn't say you need to maintain the form.

Nor do I see any balance issues with keeping the THP. Let druids be a slightly tougher caster. It's not like they have the best spells.

It's just Polymorph needs to remove the THP when the spell ends.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Not quite.

"When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points.."

Yes.
But above all those statements, it tells us:

Rules While Shape-Shifted. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:

Doesn't say you need to maintain the form.

Yes. But the bolded part tells us: rules while shape-shifted.

Although I do agree that your reading is as valid as mine.

Nor do I see any balance issues with keeping the THP. Let druids be a slightly tougher caster. It's not like they have the best spells.

For normal druids, ok. For moon druids not so much.

It's just Polymorph needs to remove the THP when the spell ends.

Not only polymorph.

 

[mellored]

Yes.
But above all those statements, it tells us:

Rules While Shape-Shifted. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:

Which is the more general rule.
The specific one is inside the general one.

 

[Lazybones]

While I personally agree with UngeheuerLich's reading of the rules in question, I can see where the other interpretations could be valid as well. I suspect that this will be clarified in errata, but based on this discussion I have already drafted the following house rule for my table:

For purposes of the duration of temporary hit points, specific language in the descriptions of a spell or ability takes precedence over the general duration listed on page 29 of the Player’s Handbook. Thus, if a spell or ability with a limited duration grants the temporary hit points, they go away when the spell or effect ends.

 

[Lanefan]

Look up spell durations.
And try common sense.

Common sense says it works the way you say it does.

The actual wording of the rules, however, would not seem to back you on this.

Wouldnt' be the first time D&D designers and common sense have passed each other by like ships in the night.

I agree. Duration should be called "coninuous" or "until dispelled".

"Permanent" should mean non-dispellable and, once in place, non-magical. "Until dispelled" should be used when such is the case; and would also mean the effect radiates magic if checked with Detect Magic, which a permanent effect does not.

 

[FrogReaver]

It is not. As it is inclear what takes precedence. Spell duration or THP duration.

The only duration effect polymorph provides is ‘the target must succeed a wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into a beast form for the duration.

The temp hp granted by the spell are not tied in the spell text to the duration. The target only gains them once and temp hp explicitly have their own duration rules.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The only duration effect polymorph provides is ‘the target must succeed a wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into a beast form for the duration.

The temp hp granted by the spell are not tied in the spell text to the duration. The target only gains them once and temp hp explicitly have their own duration rules.

Picky reading...

But if you have fun playing that way. I won't stop you.

If my players insited on this ruling, you could bet my level spellcasters will now always prepare polymorph and use it on themselves. Lets see how that goes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Common sense says it works the way you say it does.

The actual wording of the rules, however, would not seem to back you on this.

See, we disagree. Spells have a duration and their effects have too.

Wouldnt' be the first time D&D designers and common sense have passed each other by like ships in the night.

Agreed.

"Permanent" should mean non-dispellable and, once in place, non-magical.

But it does not mean that.

"Until dispelled" should be used when such is the case; and would also mean the effect radiates magic if checked with Detect Magic, which a permanent effect does not.

It does.

Instantaneous effects do not.

 

[FrogReaver]

Picky reading...

But if you have fun playing that way. I won't stop you.

If my players insited on this ruling, you could bet my level spellcasters will now always prepare polymorph and use it on themselves. Let’s see how that goes.

I can’t tell if your argument boils down to, ‘that would make the spell to strong therefore it cannot be what is written’. Surely you see the issue with that logic?