Pulling out someone elses weapon.

[IceBear]

Hmmm - then I wouldn't call the skill Pickpocket, I'd call it Sleight of Hand or something. Hmmmm....I need to start playing the game again, I'm forgetting all the rules.

It still seems to me that Pickpocket is more about taking something from someone without their notice (even if they're watching you) than it's about just taking someone.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Hmmm - then I wouldn't call the skill Pickpocket, I'd call it Sleight of Hand or something. Hmmmm....I need to start playing the game again, I'm forgetting all the rules.

IceBear

I completely agree. The name of the skill implies certain limitations where none actually exhist.

 

[IceBear]

I completely agree. The name of the skill implies certain limitations where none actually exhist.

From the SRD:

"When performing this skill under close observation, the character's skill check is opposed by the observer's Spot check. The observer's check doesn't prevent the character from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

If the character tries to take something from another creature, the character must make a skill check against DC 20. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt. The opponent detects the attempt if her check result beats the character's check result, regardless of whether the character got the item."

To me this skill is less about taking an object from someone than preventing then from noticing you taking it.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

To me this skill is less about taking an object from someone than preventing then from noticing you taking it.

IceBear

Sort of. Snatching someone's wallet is actually quite easy. Doing it without them noticing is the hard part. That's why there's a set DC of 20 to actually take the item, and that's also why being noticed doesn't affect whether or not you actually get the item.

Basically, if you make the check, you get the item. If you're spotted, it's a reasonable assumption that the person you lifted is gonna want it back, thus you run, fight, apologize, whatever.

Like I said, picking someone's pocket is really easy. Getting away with it is the hard part.

 

[Ealli]

From the SRD:

"A check against DC 10 lets you palm a coin-sized, unattended object. Minor feats of legerdemain, such as making a coin disappear, are also DC 10 unless an observer is determined to note where the item went.

When performing this skill under close observation, the character's skill check is opposed by the observer's Spot check. The observer's check doesn't prevent the character from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

If the character tries to take something from another creature, the character must make a skill check against DC 20. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt. The opponent detects the attempt if her check result beats the character's check result, regardless of whether the character got the item."

To me this skill is two part. First it allows you to take an item, and second it allows you to take the item unnoticed. You need a base result to even get the item and the opposing spot check is used against to see if the attempt was noticed. Getting the item and being noticed are mutually independent.

If it makes you feel better, for CoCd20 the skill was renamed to Sleight of Hand.

 

[kreynolds]

If it makes you feel better, for CoCd20 the skill was renamed to Sleight of Hand.

That's a much better name. It makes a whole lot more sense.

 

[IceBear]

I know what you're saying, but I think a lot of the reason the DC to take the item is 20 isn't because that's how hard it is to take the item but because they are also factoring in that you are trying to do it without drawing undue attention to yourself, which makes the attempt harder.

Now, I'm being lazy, but if it turns out that the AC for an object on someone averages to be about 20 then I guess that's why the DC is 20.

That's why I'd just go with a touch attack to grab the weapon and then some sort of opposed Dex or Str check to actually take the weapon. If I went with pickpockets I would lower the DC simply because they don't care if the fighter sees them trying it and thus aren't as cautious in their movements.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

INow, I'm being lazy, but if it turns out that the AC for an object on someone averages to be about 20 then I guess that's why the DC is 20.

I bet you're right. The average AC should be about 20. Think about it. That's the one big limitation of the skill. You can only pick pocket small or smaller items. Small items get a pretty good AC as well, mostly because they are, well, small, but they also use your Dex bonus to increase their own AC. So, I guess you could do it either way, touch attack or just DC 20.

 

[IceBear]

I guess another reason I wouldn't use pickpocket for this is because I don't see it taking anything more than a big pair of kahounas to reach over and pull some guys sword out of his sheath while in combat. You don't have to be an expert at sleight of hand - if you can grab the hilt you can try to pull it out of the sheath. If you force them to use pickpocket your limiting this to only those trained in pickpocket as you can't attempt pickpocket untrained.

Now, this could be a good or bad thing depending on how abusive your players are

IceBear

 

[RigaMortus]

I believe the feat Snatch Weapon is probably what you are looking for.