D&D 5E Purple Dragon Knight = Warlord?

[Tony Vargas]

Oh, there was a full-on 3e edition war.

Not quite how I remember it. There were grognards who did say some pretty silly things about 3e being grid-dependent and 'not really role-playing' or whatever, but they never took over a forum the way the actual edition war did.

But, hey, the main difference probably had more to do with the state of the internet back then, not the level of nerdrage. So if we retroactively call it an edition war, and they were ranting unfairly against PrCs /and/ you repeated some of those rants, then sure, congratulations, you'd be retro-warring.

As someone who hung out on Noah's boards, the WotC message forums (and the listserv's before that) and here, I saw plenty of 3e hate from earlier players, other RPGers, etc.

I was there, and on UseNet for the Roll v Role debate, for good measure. Gamers were always nerdraging about something, but the edition war was a whole 'nuther level of awful. Though, sure, mainly a matter of degree rather than kind.

That doesn't mean re-cycling role v roll BS or fighter SUX threads to attack 5e or potential additions there to isn't just as lame as re-cycling edition war rhetoric to attack it or potential additions like the warlord. Maybe the wounds aren't as fresh.

I mean, Batman Wizard, CoDzilla, Magic Item Christmas Trees, Linear Fighter/Quadratic Wizard, etc all came from comparisons to AD&D, right?

Well, no, not most of 'em: 5MWD, LFQW, excessive magic items - those were all perennial issues that 3e just didn't fix (maybe made worse), not problems it caused. Even CoDzilla was a result of trying to address problems with the classic D&D cleric being nothing but a 'band aid' class. And, y'know, those were real issues, many of them brought up by 3.5 fans familiar with the system, not just hold-outs nerdraging in ignorance. They'd be more analogous to the problems 4e had with Skill Challenges, MM1 elites/solos, or feat taxes (probably the best example since they weren't an entirely new problem) - things even loyal fans wanted addressed, rather than flimsy excuses for hating and rejecting it out of hand.

So if I say Prestige classes are a mechanic that encourages cherry-picked Frankenstein PCs who exploit the multi-classing rules while offering straight up power-creep compared to those who remain in base-classes

You'd be off-base. There's nothing much to indicate that 5e PrCs would suffer from power-creep (hasn't been much of an issue in 5e so far), and even MCing is optional in the first lace, so they needn't impact any campaign that doesn't want 'em.

(all common complaints about 3e PrCs) I guess I'm being a hat3r? Maybe if I combine it with hating warlords, I can be a h4t3r?

I'm sure if you worked at it you could join the ranks of semi-mythical 'h4t3r5' who just want to burn WotC D&D to the ground, and live in the TSR era forever.

It really does feel though that the discussion is "I want a full warlord class that did everything the 4e warlord did and then some,

It's not like the 4e warlord did anything unreasonable - it was balanced, and the 4e leaders that made it into 5e are all got pretty substantially upgraded. A 5e Warlord that was little more than a direct port of the 4e version would be under-powered & under-versatile compared to those classes. If 5e is going to expand to support the character concepts and playstyles that the Warlord opened up, it'll need a viable version of the class.

 

[Bluenose]

Not quite how I remember it. There were grognards who did say some pretty silly things about 3e being grid-dependent and 'not really role-playing' or whatever, but they never took over a forum the way the actual edition war did.

Oh, there were some pretty aggressive things being said, and it was widespread and persistent (if not so much as the anti-4e version). Even 1e to 2e had a little bit of one, though with the internet being much less widespread it wasn't as obvious. I've still got some links to things like Hat of d02 and some of the 3e=Diablo-clone material from then.

Nothing on the level of the TML war over Traveller: the New Era, which is still running in places.

 

[Remathilis]

Oh, there were some pretty aggressive things being said, and it was widespread and persistent (if not so much as the anti-4e version). Even 1e to 2e had a little bit of one, though with the internet being much less widespread it wasn't as obvious. I've still got some links to things like Hat of d02 and some of the 3e=Diablo-clone material from then.

Nothing on the level of the TML war over Traveller: the New Era, which is still running in places.

Oh, I forgot the 3e=diablo theme; when the official 3e based Diablo 3 book came out, I remember a snide comment about how "it just reprinted the PHB".

I also forgot about the dungeonpunk art style that got a lot of hatred as well.

 

[Miladoon]

/Plays Led Zeppelin - Bring it on Home.

Ima take my seat right way back...gonna get that purple dragon knight on the track

 

[Flamestrike]

Is there any reason why a Purple Dragon knight/ Paladin/ Bard with the martial adept and inspiring leader feats doesnt do everything a Warlord does in 4E and then some?

 

[pemerton]

Is there any reason why a Purple Dragon knight/ Paladin/ Bard with the martial adept and inspiring leader feats doesnt do everything a Warlord does in 4E and then some?

That doesn't sound like a non-spell caster to me.

 

[Flamestrike]

That doesn't sound like a non-spell caster to me.

Is there any reason 'spells' need to be 'arcane or divine' and not 'martial' in origin?

Theyre martial powers [spells].

Or if thats not good enough, look at a human S+B Fighter (PDK) 4 (Feats: inspiring leader, martial adept [commanders strike, manouvering attack], protection fighting style).

S 15 (16)
D 8
C 12
I 10
W 11
Ch 15 (16)

Noble background. Persuasion (expertise) +7, Athletics +5, Perception +2, History +2, Insight +2

Position of priveledge: Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to.

He can (once per short rest):

• Inspire up to six of his allies, granting each of them 7 temp HP each.
• Heal 3 allies as a bonus action for 4 HP each (and heal 1d10+4 himself)
• Expend his superiority die on hitting an opponent (adding the dice to damage) and allow one of his allies to use its reaction to move up to half its speed without provoking opportunity attacks.
• Expend his superiority dice and forgo one of his own attacks and use a bonus action to direct a companion to use its reaction to make one weapon attack, adding the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll.
• Action surge (attack + help action)

While also using his reaction every single round to impose disadvantage on an attack roll directed at an adjacent ally.

Underneath all that, he's still a fighter. Looks pretty Warlord-ey to me.

Personally, I would dip into Paladin after 5th for 6 levels (for +cha to all ally saves, lay on hands, a horse, divine smite, duelling fighting style) but you could happily stick with fighter and no-one would be any the wiser.

 

[pemerton]

Is there any reason 'spells' need to be 'arcane or divine' and not 'martial' in origin?

Well, "martial" entails "not involving spell casting". So a martial spell looks oxymoronic to me.

 

[Flamestrike]

Well, "martial" entails "not involving spell casting". So a martial spell looks oxymoronic to me.

Just re-fluff the abilities as martial in nature. 'Arcane' and Divine' dont exist anymore. Check it out:

Vuman: Fighter (PDK) 11, Paladin (Crown) 6

S: 18
D: 8
C: 12
I: 11
W 10
Ch: 20

ASI: +2 Str, +4 Cha, martial adept [commanders strike, manouvering attack], inspiring leader

Noble background. Persuasion +17, Perception +6, Insight +6, History +6, Athletics +10

Action surge, second wind, indomitable, extra attack (2), Rallying cry, royal envoy, inspiring surge, lay on hands, champion challenge, turn the tide, smite, aura of protection, divine health, fighting style (duelling, protection), divine sense

7 paladin 'spells' known (1st and 2nd)

Compell duel (using his resolve alone, he stares down an opponent, forcing it to engage him)
Heroism (he inspires his companions to greater deeds with his valorious words)
Wrathful smite (he channels his martial power into a ferocious blow that can frighten his enemy)
Aid (he bolsters his companions with tales of glory)
Bless (see above)
Command (his orders are forceful and must be obeyed by the weak willed)
Divine favor (his martial skill knows no bounds)
Warding bond (his ability to defend others has improved to the point where he can interpose himself between an attack, and take the damage of a nearby ally)
Zone of Truth (under his stern gaze, no lies can be spoken willingly)
Find steed (his trusty steed is always at hand)
Magic weapon (through his martial might adn resolve alone, he can smite down foes that require foul sorcery to slay)

Champion Challenge. Each creature of his choice must make a save or it can’t willingly move more than 30 feet away from him. 1/ short rest
Turn the Tide. As a bonus action, each creature of his choice within range regains hit points equal to 1d6 + 5. 1/ short rest.
Rallying Cry: When he uses his Second Wind feature, he deals 1d10+11 and can choose up to three target creatures within 60 feet of him and each one regains 11 hit points 1/short rest.
Royal Envoy: Proficiency + Expertse in the Persuasion skill.
Inspiring Surge When he uses Action Surge feature, one creature within 60 feet can make one melee or ranged weapon attack with its reaction.
Action surge. Take an extra action 1/ short rest.
Protection and dueling F/S: +2 damage, may use his reaction to impose disadvantage on an oppnents attack.
Inspiring leader: 1/short rest grant 21 temp HP to up to 6 allies
Manouvering strike; Expend his superiority die on hitting an opponent (adding the dice to damage) and allow one of his allies to use its reaction to move up to half its speed without provoking opportunity attacks.
Commander strike: Expend his superiority dice and forgo one of his own attacks and use a bonus action to direct a companion to use its reaction to make one weapon attack, adding the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll.
Aura of protection: Adds +5 to all allies (and his own) saves in 10' radius.
Position of priveledge: Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to.
Lay on hands: His skill at battlefield healing lets him heal 30 points of damage per long rest
Indomitable: He can reroll a save 1/ short rest
Divine sense: He can smell evil

How much more of a Warlord do you want man? That pretty much covers it.

 

[mellored]

How much more of a Warlord do you want man? That pretty much covers it.

My main issue with that is that your using daily resources.

If you had warlock spell slots recharging per short rest, it would be close. Though i'd still prefer some good at-will abilities.