R&C Art, the Women of R&C

[Rechan]

Having just watched 300, that image kind of makes me go play a Spartan!

In all seriousness, though, I don't see what's objectionable about it. I mean, it's not as eye-candy-ish to me, a straight male, but it's certainly a reasonable phenotype for male fantasy heroes. I could imagine playing him.

How about this fella?

I say that "Pretty boys" fit D&D too. I mean, "Slender, androgynous and sexy" practically defines male elves. And then we have Tieflings...

 

[Orius]

Holy crap. Ron, I haven't seen you since I stopped reading rec.games.frp.dnd way back in 1999. You were shining light of interest in a vast sea of babble. Nice to see you around.

I was thinking the same thing. Ron always livens up a discussion.

And speaking of people from rgfd, is Hong still around? Nothing's more entertaining than a thread with Ron and Hong.

 

[resistor]

How about this fella?

I say that "Pretty boys" fit D&D too. I mean, "Slender, androgynous and sexy" practically defines male elves. And then we have Tieflings...

Probably not a character I personally would play, but I've known some others' PCs that would have looked like that

 

[Piratecat]

I'll say I know more women who aren't "offended" by boob armor (or "hookerplate")...

Ethan, that's a hilarious term. Yoink.

 

[Rechan]

Probably not a character I personally would play, but I've known some others' PCs that would have looked like that

That wasn't my point.

Do you feel that the above picture is exploitative? Would you be perfectly okay flipping through a D&D book and see someone like that?

On the same lines of the above:

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[I'm A Banana]

How about this fella?

More of a genre consideration. I could see playing him in a goth-y d20 Modern adventure, or maybe something World-of-Darkness-ish, or even a D&D campaign that embraced modern sensibilities, but the dude doesn't even have a sword! He dresses a bit like some of the club-goers I know, so it's hard to imagine some of those kids savin' villages and killin' dragons.

On the same lines of the above:

That guy's totally fine, very much in a fantasy genre.

I've got no problem with the Dragon cover, either, and am BAFFLED as to how that could be a problem for anyone playing a fantasy game. I understand, broadly speaking, why some people would have problems with vulnerable chainmail bikini girls. That dude? He's a god, he's got a sword, he's ready to kick some butt, go Dark Age Greece on your arse.

 

[Rechan]

More of a genre consideration. I could see playing him in a goth-y d20 Modern adventure, or maybe something World-of-Darkness-ish, or even a D&D campaign that embraced modern sensibilities, but the dude doesn't even have a sword! He dresses a bit like some of the club-goers I know, so it's hard to imagine some of those kids savin' villages and killin' dragons.

Work with me here, KM. I grabbed the first "lithe skinny boy" I could find. I'm talking about the way the picture looks, makes you feel. I was asking if it looked exploitative. Forget the outfit for a second.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

Ethan, that's a hilarious term. Yoink.

I believe Sundragon was the first to use the term "hookerplate."



From my perspective, that term is far more insulting than the art it's supposed to ridicule. The implication that a woman that dresses in a sexual manner is a whore or a prostitute is both priggish and mysoginistic.

Avalanche Press covers are overly cheesy and blatently childish, but that is NOT equal to actual promiscuity. All who declare that sexual=whore have a mindset that I would say is far worse than some publishing company's poor choice of juvenile artwork.

Paizo has done several covers with both subtle and overt sexual imagery (both cheesecake and beefcake), but at least to my eye, they have shown that it can be done in a tasteful and mature manner. The Dragon sun god cover has some sexual overtones, but by no means does it proscribe that he's a man-whore, that a guy that veiws it is gay, or that a woman that digs it is a slut...

...those thoughts strike me as the work of a shame-ridden viewer.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

Ah, there it is: Dragon #294.

This was the issue where Paizo decided to equalize the male cheesecake factor a little.

Incidentally, I personally like a lot of D&D art; chainmail bikinis are a longstanding staple of the genre. But I have had at least three female players who have actively disliked the art style, and another three or four who mocked it. Getting women into the game is a great idea in my opinion, and some art actively works against that.

(Incidentally, feel free to read through this train-wreck of a thread for the last time this conversation was held.)

That some male gamers can be offended by what is an excellent representation of a sun-god (who wouldn't have any concerns about the praticality of his dress) bespeaks volumes about their insecurities as opposed to the painting itself. That painting is not a sexualizing of anything more than it is a glorification of a dare a say it, a strikingly good, male physique. Yeah, he is a handsome man and I would love to have his build...there I said it. Only an insecure male cannot ackowledge masculine attractiveness.

Maybe the male ego is as weak as some say it is. I would like to think not, but hostile reactions to a painting such as this seems to validate this stereotype.

Much of greek art glorifies the masculine form. Michaelanglo's David is a great sculpture. A lot of males are afraid of admiring the male form because they think that if they do they must be homosexual. This of course is nothing more than a cultural hang-up that IMO it is a bad idea to pander to.

There is a wierd American hypersensitivity to anything that can be, even incorrectly, seen as sexualizing when it fact nudity is a very natural thing. A nudist beach is ironically one of the least sexy places on earth IMO. I went to a clothing optional beach with a girlfriend and outside of a couple women who looked great, most would have looked far, far better with some clothing on.

The ancient Celts, in some cases fought nude covered only in some paint. Native Americans were often very lightly clothed in battle (depending on the tribe and the climate of course).

As in many things, one's reaction regarding a piece of art often tells others more about the viewer than about the piece in question.



Wyrmshadows

 

[I'm A Banana]

Work with me here, KM. I grabbed the first "lithe skinny boy" I could find. I'm talking about the way the picture looks, makes you feel. I was asking if it looked exploitative. Forget the outfit for a second.

Exploitative? Not really. I mean, it looks like the kid is trying to show off his skin, but, again, it's nothing you don't see at the goth clubs on a Friday night. It's not like he's being forced to do something against his will -- presumably, he chose the mesh shirt, for instance.

The Dragon Mag cover and the second picture you posted are even less so. The mag cover is just "ancient guy." The elf's nudity is really incidental.