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R&C Art, the Women of R&C

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Rechan said:
You know, maybe I'm just tired, but the inference there seems to be that since the people you know are those that Could pull off hookerplate, that the ones who don't care for it couldn't.

not sure, I just know that people who are comfortable with sexy armor in art, are ones that are comfortable wearing it themselves.

I'm not saying that those uncomfortable wearing sexy armor dislike sexy armor in art, i'm just saying that if your willing to wear that type of armor yourself, at a convention or whatever, seeing it in art is not such a big deal.

I'm also NOT saying that its only people who wear sexy armor that are the ones like seeing it in art.
 
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Moon-Lancer said:
not sure, I just know that people comfortable with sexy armor are ones that are comfortable wearing it themselves.

Don't let them get you down, Moon-Lancer. I'd LARP with you and your friends anytime.
 

Steely Dan said:
Totally, but not needed, look at countries like Brazil and Thailand etc, where even without any form of surgery or hormone therapy, there are some very, let us say, uh, pretty and shapely girls who are not what they seem (entirely).
I promise that there are men in America who, without needing surgery or therapy, can pull it off.

I went to the cabaret show at a local gay club and I was stunned at the female-impersonators' skills at femaleness. Surgery doesn't get you hips and soft thighs.
 




Werebat said:
In all seriousness, why no artwork of nurturing males? The burly half-orc barbarian coddling his precious infant son to his corded chest with huge, calloused, but lovingly gentle hands? The enthusiastic gnome father instructing his sharp-minded daughter (his pride and joy) in the ways of illusion? The kind elven father making funny faces at his tiny babe while he spoonfeeds her warmed berry mash?

[falls on the floor laughing]
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
And I think the stereotypes/archetypes are particularly challenging to be rid of in D&D, where the myths and tales the game is based on so often have a deeply entrenched male-centric (if not downright mysogynistic) angle. I mean, Save The Princess is a cliche, but it automatically assumes princesses can't save themselves.

Why is it that when a young man goes out with mystical aid and wins the hand of a princess (Sleeping Beauty) it's a sign of the Evils of Patriarchy, but when a young woman goes out with mystical aid and wins the hand of a prince (Cinderella), it's... ALSO a sign of the Evils of Patriarchy?

Mythology and especially folk tales contain female protagonists as often as male. If you're boiling it down to "misogynistic Greeks and gynophobic medieval codices," you're already ruling out a large portion of the available myths and stories. Cuchullainn, the big Irish epic hero, learned all his moves from a female blademaster. Morgan the Fey oumagicked and outsmarted Arthur at pretty much every turn. And so on. Yes, all of these characters existed within sexist conceptions of the world, but their male counterparts were stuck with societal expectations we'd consider just as ridiculous.

D&D "medieval fantasy" isn't about historical accuracy, you're correct there. But it's not necessarily about mindlessly recycling outdated themes and tale-types, either. A lot of D&D "types" are really just modern-world "types" repurposed. The frail wizard is the stereotypical bookworm from high school, with a healthy dose of revenge. Obviously the women of D&D can't be "realistic" medieval women warriors, because by and large those didn't exist. So instead they seem to be sort of "modern woman" in chainmail: trying to balance sex appeal with practicality.

Thus, the 4e women sneak a plunging neckline or a bare midriff into their plate mail at times. It may not be completely practical, but neither are the oh-so-phallic spikes sprouting out of their male peers' armor, and they see no reason why they should pay what could literally be a king's ransom, tens of thousands of gold pieces, to have magical armor specially crafted for them only to have it make them look like undergrown boys with overlong hair.

Basically, even if one accepts your argument that chainmail bikinis are wrong for the reasons you cite, it can be argued that the art style in 4e isn't just a compromise between chainmail bikinis and historic armor, but rather something more positive. And I think my interpretation is in line with the way not only a bunch of the WOTC people see it, but also the way a lot of female gamers see it: being a little sexy doesn't make you a pinup.
 

ZombieRoboNinja said:
Why is it that when a young man goes out with mystical aid and wins the hand of a princess (Sleeping Beauty) it's a sign of the Evils of Patriarchy, but when a young woman goes out with mystical aid and wins the hand of a prince (Cinderella), it's... ALSO a sign of the Evils of Patriarchy?
Winning implies she did something to get it. To use your example, Cinderella didn't do anything but look pretty.

Let's review the story. Cinderella is told by her step-mother "Work hard and you can go to the ball"; she works hard and doesn't get to go. (Work is hard ladies, you get nothing in return). She gets a makeover (because expensive clothes and pricey shoes are so important to landing a man, ladies). She goes to the ball, the Prince saw her, but she ran due to curfew (be coy, ladies). The prince didn't catch her. But he went around with her glass slipper, trying on all the fair maidens until he found her (sit back and let the man do all the work to get you) and then she was happily married (Look pretty and be coy and you'll get what you want).

Meanwhile, we also see the "Evil step mother and sisters" to drive home that women are really just backstabbing, cruel harpies.
 
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I preferred to believe that Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella were only tales for children and not tools for gender opression...

What will be next, explaining how Little Red Hood story is a warning about pervert child molesters ?


Horacio, who will hesitate about telling old faery tales to his daughter anymore...
 

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