Ranger - likes and dislikes?

[FireLance]

Problem! I don't think you can compare the cleric's spells to favored enemy in terms of "changing per day".

A spell like prayer is useful every day. A ranger who picks aberrations as a favored enemy that day, and doesn't face any, completely wasted their ability.

Rangers don't get the ability to see the future.

But they can - and should - try their best to discover what opponents they are going to face through scouting, research, gathering information, etc.

Plus, the ranger should be able to obtain a good idea of the types of enemies he's going to face once he catches the flavor of the campaign or (on a smaller scale) the adventure. Unless the DM is running a scenario where the players have no time to rest (the spellcasters cannot recover spells, etc.), the ranger will be able to adapt his favored enemy choices and make them more useful.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

But they can - and should - try their best to discover what opponents they are going to face through scouting, research, gathering information, etc.

But a cleric doesn't need to do this. Scouting is also dangerous, although rangers are good at it. Rangers are no good at things like Gather Information. None of these things always work, whereas the cleric's general spells always work. You never know if there's going to be a surprise (and this isn't a case of the DM screwing the player). Opponents could come in very mixed groups.

Plus, the ranger should be able to obtain a good idea of the types of enemies he's going to face once he catches the flavor of the campaign or (on a smaller scale) the adventure. Unless the DM is running a scenario where the players have no time to rest (the spellcasters cannot recover spells, etc.), the ranger will be able to adapt his favored enemy choices and make them more useful.

There's always a big chance of a surprise. If you're just fighting goblins and wargs, it can get boring.

It just seems like the special damage abilities for fighters, barbarians, paladins, rogues, and scouts don't require the same type of preparation.

 

[Klaus]

CR 1/2?!? You're gonna hafta 'splain that, too...

Nice to know that the PHB II has it, though.

PS: What's the Craft (Trapmaking) DC?

Craft (trapmaking) DC 20 and 1 minute of work. Take -10 penalty and assemble the booby trap as a full-round action. Parts either cost 50 gp or can be scavenged in 10 minutes using a Survival DC 20 check.

Examples:
Alarm, rings bell when triggered (Dc -5 to Listen, mod. by distance).
Knockback, heavy swinging weight makes a bull rush (= Medium Str 14)
Sticker, sharp spike (Atk +6, dmg 1d6)

They're CR 1/2 (i.e., half), being easily found and/or disabled. But if you ain't looking for them, they can be a nuisance (or deadly, depending on the crafter: Knockback next to cliff = looong fall).

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Likes:
Most things. The ranger is a sweet class that combines much of what I like into one compotent, flexable, lightly armored package of dynamite.
Bab, Skills, just enough HP, evasion, Saves,

Dislikes:
Animal companion--personal issues with having weaker depenants around, my mages don't even get famaliars. Actually though, having a hawk would be pretty cool, I just wouldn't use him much. It's great as flavor, not so useful as an ability.
Spell casting: Really, it should be spontanious as an innate thing, and the spell list should be trimmed and adjusted so that it's all things that could easily be handwaved away as willpower, bursts of energy, knowing animals, and being well trained (endure elements, expedious retreat, pass without trace, charm animal), rather than focusing eldrich energies or calling upon the power of some vague 'nature god'.

Skills: There are one or two skills that could really be on that skill list.

 

[Hussar]

The thing is a ranger usually needs decent dex as they can only wear light armor, so you wouldnt have that much different from a fighter's 19 dex anyway.

This will vary greatly depending on campaign. Using default 25 point buy, you are, at best going to start with a 15 dex. The fighter is going to need stat buff items to be able to get Greater TWF even with +3 inherited points for 12th level. A dispel magic, or disjunction REALLY hurts in that case. Never mind any straight up ability damage.

The ranger gets TWF no matter what.

 

[Plane Sailing]

How can it be more DM dependent if its a broader catergory? Sure, it still requires that you are in that sort of environment, but in this respect, your looking at 8 or so possible combinations where your abilities affect ANYTHING you meet in that terrain. Secondly, who says because you have picked favored terrain that the abilities can't work in ANY terrain? Take a look at the Horizon Walker PrC in the DMG.

Although it is apparently a broader category, it is also much more specific. If your favoured enemy is undead, they can crop up absolutely anywhere - underground, overground, mountains or swamps. If a ranger has favoured terrain woodlands +4, how keen is he to be at leaving the woodlands for a city based adventure, or a dungeon adventure or a sailing adventure?

Horizon walker as a prestige class has a very different take on 'terrain benefits' than any other options that I've seen which are typically bonuses to a few skills (awareness and hiding typically). I've not seen the HW approach suggested for a ranger variant to date.

I'll readily admit that this view reflects my own preferences as both a player and a DM, for adventures that range over the whole world. For DMs and Players that run a whole campaign in the woods or that rarely travel far from a base I could see a terrain bonus could be useful.

As I mentioned above, the WoT Woodsman had a fairly interesting idea on 'favoured terrain'

Cheers

 

[Glyfair]

when first introduced, the 1st level ranger had 2d8hp as against 1d8 for fighters.

When 1e turned up, the fighter got boosted to 1d10hp but the ranger still got his 2d8 at first level.

i.e. as originally concieved, the starting ranger was considerably hardier than anyone else.

Of course, as originally concieved, the ranger was as much a mish-mash as anything else.

Advantages

Additional Hit Die (up to 10 hit dice at 9th level)
Eventually got cleric spells (at 8th level) & magic-user spells (at 9th level)
Had an experience bonus at low levels (earned 4 xp for every 3 normal xp - why they didn't just adjust the xp table, I have no idea)
Tracking ability
Hard to suprise
Extra damage against "giant class creatures" (which somehow included kobolds).
Followers at 8th level
Ability to use some magic-user and cleric magic items.

Disadvantages

Can only own what they can carry
No more than 2 rangers can operate together (not a big character limitation)
High ability score requirements
Had to be lawful (when lawful, neutral and chaotic were the only alignments)

Perhaps a variation could be done to put these varied abilities into the same class for 3.5. You could give them Improved Toughness as a bonus feat to simulate the extra hit die (to avoid having a class with an extra hit die floating around). Give them Leadership as a bonus feat at the appropriate level, and perhaps give some bonus with the ability. Then give them some sort of ability for their spells to be both arcane & divine (two spell lists are just annoying).

Ditch the combat styles completely. Also ditch the limitation to their armor. Then perhaps add some bonus feats of a sort to balance out what you have.

 

[FireLance]

But a cleric doesn't need to do this. Scouting is also dangerous, although rangers are good at it. Rangers are no good at things like Gather Information. None of these things always work, whereas the cleric's general spells always work. You never know if there's going to be a surprise (and this isn't a case of the DM screwing the player). Opponents could come in very mixed groups.

There's always a big chance of a surprise. If you're just fighting goblins and wargs, it can get boring.

It just seems like the special damage abilities for fighters, barbarians, paladins, rogues, and scouts don't require the same type of preparation.

Actually, are we tackling the same problem here? The original point that I responded to was that the favored enemy bonus was too DM-dependent. From the DM's perspective, the favored enemy bonus is also too inflexible. Suppose you're the type of DM that wants to ensure that his players get to use their cool abilities. A ranger with a specific favored enemy tends to bias you towards including such enemies in your adventures.

If your problem with the favored enemy bonus is that:

(1) it doesn't work all the time; and
(2) requires more preparation on the part of the character,

then yes, allowing a ranger to re-assign his favored enemy bonus on a daily basis doesn't go very far towards addressing those problems. Unfortunately, it is a characteristic of the favored enemy bonus that it is more specific (affects a smaller set of creatures) than the extra damage abilities of other classes like the fighter and the barbarian (almost all creatures), the paladin (all evil creatures), and the rogue and scout (all creatures not immune to critical hits).

One way to get around those problems is to allow the ranger to re-assign his favored enemy bonus on the fly, but this should either require feats (like the feats in a recent Dragon magazine that allowed a soulknife to re-assign his mindblade abilities more quickly), require the expenditure of some limited resource such as action points (if you use them), or reduce the quantum of the favored enemy bonus (maybe to +1 at 1st level, +2 at 5th level, and so on).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Ability to use some magic-user and cleric magic items.

To be precise, it was healing items and clairvoyance items (athelas and palantir anyone?)

My 'Strategic Review' ranger reached 15th level before 1e came out. He was a holy terror with his combat ability and his amazing spells (he was actually getting more spells than the wizards and clerics were, with the wacked out progression they gave the ranger!)

 

[buzz]

One way to get around those problems is to allow the ranger to re-assign his favored enemy bonus on the fly, but this should either require feats (like the feats in a recent Dragon magazine that allowed a soulknife to re-assign his mindblade abilities more quickly), require the expenditure of some limited resource such as action points (if you use them), or reduce the quantum of the favored enemy bonus (maybe to +1 at 1st level, +2 at 5th level, and so on).

This all just reinformces my opinion that Favored Enemy is nofun.

If the ranger is to be a great hunter, let him do hunter-y things... but let him do them all the time. Like the scout's skirmish or the rogue's sneak attack, just make it a "do idiomaic move, get to use class ability" thing.