[Ranger]Twin strike misunstanding ?

[Doctor Proctor]

For an 18 STR melee ranger, Twin Strike is a pretty good power. However, if you want to use something else (especially early in the game), feel free to do so. Careful Strike has it's uses, and Nimble Strike can be a pretty effective melee power.

So, despite what the optimizers may say, feel free to use those abilities for now. They're not BAD in and of themselves, and at 1st level they can actually be better than Twin Strike in some cases.

 

[Nifft]

For an 18 STR melee ranger, Twin Strike is a pretty good power.

If by "pretty good" you mean "among the best two at-wills in the whole game", then we agree. (This category may go up to three when I'm done running the numbers on the Artificer's Magic Weapon power, which is certainly in the ZOMG awesome tier.)

Careful Strike has it's uses

It's always worse than a basic attack. It's always MUCH worse than Twin Strike.

Its only use is to serve as a warning to other powers: "don't be like him".

In other words, don't take Careful Strike unless your character concept is to suck.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Saeviomagy]

For a low level ranger, the important thing to remember is that you apply quarry damage AFTER determining whether you hit.

Even without that,the increased chance to hit that you gain from swinging twice is a bigger benefit than losing str bonus to damage is a penalty.

Later on, str bonus can end up being a trivial contribution to your damage, so getting to potentially hit twice is massive.

(incidentally: careful attack/sure strike DOES become better than a basic attack with a high enough damage bonus, but twin strike becomes massively better, so you still shouldn't use careful attack/sure strike).

 

[javcs]

For an 18 STR melee ranger, Twin Strike is a pretty good power. However, if you want to use something else (especially early in the game), feel free to do so. Careful Strike has it's uses, and Nimble Strike can be a pretty effective melee power.

So, despite what the optimizers may say, feel free to use those abilities for now. They're not BAD in and of themselves, and at 1st level they can actually be better than Twin Strike in some cases.

Careful Strike is overrated. Sure, at first glance it looks like it could be useful, but I would never take it. There is no point in taking Careful Strike - there is no point at which it is superior to Twin Strike (if there is a point, it is at best a range of 2-3 values on a d20 required to hit with Careful Strike, and it is only marginally better).

Nimble Strike is a ranged weapon power, not melee. Hit and Run is melee. They are situationally good powers - ie, usually when you need to book it and/or otherwise gtfo of combat. In those situations, then yes, they can be a better option than Twin Strike, but, then again, you've already lost at that point.

As a ranger, my two at-wills are Twin Strike and Hit and Run or Nimble Strike, depending on whether I'm going melee or ranged; if I'm human, the bonus at will is the other - Nimble Strike or Hit and Run.

 

[Obryn]

In fairness to Careful Strike (and the Fighter's identical power), there are now approximately 1 bazillion feats which modify it to a state of lesser-suckitude.

You're probably better off with Twin Strike, still, but if you must take Careful Strike, at least look into those feats.

-O

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's always worse than a basic attack.

This is not true, as the revised spreadsheet shows. For high AC monsters, careful strike starts to be better than a basic attack. Similarly, this would apply in the case of, say, penalties (like invisible opponents). One interesting thing is that a better [W] actually favors Careful attack, though both use it. Thus, if you use a greatbow, Careful Strike inches one more row on the spreadsheet vs. Basic attacks.

It's always MUCH worse than Twin Strike.

Not always, though I would agree MUCH worse for a long time. However, Careful Strike does have a sharper curve and therefore actually catches up (in the default values I provided). Tweak the numbers for further analysis, though. (Note: the graph is inverted so that the higher the line goes the 'better' it is for that power.)

 

[Stalker0]

Not always, though I would agree MUCH worse for a long time. However, Careful Strike does have a sharper curve and therefore actually catches up (in the default values I provided). Tweak the numbers for further analysis, though. (Note: the graph is inverted so that the higher the line goes the 'better' it is for that power.)

I would argue that in 4e I will never see a fight (that is intended to be an actual fight) where I need to a roll a 20 to hit. In other words, the areas where careful strike would actually win never happen, so once again twin strike comes out ahead.

 

[fnwc]

I would argue that in 4e I will never see a fight (that is intended to be an actual fight) where I need to a roll a 20 to hit. In other words, the areas where careful strike would actually win never happen, so once again twin strike comes out ahead.

This. The only time you might encounter something in a real fight is when you are under the effect of some kind of specific controller effect, which is pretty situational for an at-will.

 

[Baumi]

Hi,
Reading the rules, I assumed that twin strike doesn't have the STR bonus to damage (weird cause basic melee has the STR bonus). Reading the forum, everybody says Twin Strike is THE feat to take cause it does a lot damage and chance to hit.

How can you take Twin Strike as a Feat?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I would argue that in 4e I will never see a fight (that is intended to be an actual fight) where I need to a roll a 20 to hit. In other words, the areas where careful strike would actually win never happen, so once again twin strike comes out ahead.

Never say never, particularly when statistics are at hand. And here I thought you liked statistics given your whole skill challenge foray.