D&D 5E (2014) [+] Rangers should have monster fighting spells equivalent to Paladin's Smite spells. Discuss!

[Tonguez]

I'm wondering what further spells are needed as a Ranger already gets Hunters Mark for the Tracking bonus and various elemental bonus spells eg a Troll Hunter can use Searing Smite to do bonus fire damage - is that the kind of thing you're looking at?

 

[Minigiant]

Okay?

That has no impact on the Ranger having bonus spells that shut down broadly prevalent monster abilities. It isn’t at all the favored enemy problem, because you aren’t just picking 1 and hoping it comes up a lot.

Monster abilities are not common enough amongst type for that to work outside of size, speed, and weapons/armor prof.

 

[Rocker26a]

Monster abilities are not common enough amongst type for that to work outside of size, speed, and weapons/armor prof.

There are favourable examples, though. There's a single Troll that doesn't have the Regeneration trait, and that's it's gimmick.
Though, yeah, these are only really serving as the jumping off point.

 

[Shardstone]

Monster abilities are not common enough amongst type for that to work outside of size, speed, and weapons/armor prof.

That just doesn't really matter. Most monsters share some kind of design thing, so the monster type only needs to be an inspiration for a general effect instead of a specific effect for a specific monster type.

 

[Rocker26a]

I'm wondering what further spells are needed as a Ranger already gets Hunters Mark for the Tracking bonus and various elemental bonus spells eg a Troll Hunter can use Searing Smite to do bonus fire damage - is that the kind of thing you're looking at?

I find the pre-existing solutions lacking. For one thing, both of those use concentration!

 

[Rocker26a]

Okay so I’m not the best at Spells, but let’s say something like this for the trolls:

Lifestealer Blade
Level 2 (?) Necromancy spell
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Duration: Instantaneous
Component: S, M (a weapon that inflicts slashing damage)
Effect: You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects plus 1d8 necrotic damage, and you now divert any vitality your target might receive for yourself. For the next 5 minutes, whenever the target would regain hit points it does not and instead you regain hit points equal to your spellcasting ability modifier.

For dragons and other flying foes:

Gravity Shot
Level 1 Enchantment (?) spell
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Duration: Instantaneous
Component: S, M (a ranged weapon with the ammunition trait)
Effect: You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a ranged attack against a creature in the normal range of your weapon. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and they are brought down to the ground as if dragged and held down by heavy chains. The target is knocked prone and cannot stand up from prone until the end of your next turn, furthermore, if the target had a flight speed, that flight speed is reduced to 0 for the next 5 minutes.

For slimes and ghosts :

Winter’s Stillness
Level 2 Evocation (?) spell
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Self
Duration: Instantaneous
Component: S, M (a melee weapon)
Effect: You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects plus 1d8 cold damage, ignoring the target’s resistance(s) and immunity(ies), and spirits of Winter spring forth from your weapon to take hold of the target. For the next 5 minutes, the target is slowed, can no longer squeeze while moving, and loses the benefits of incorporeal movement and its damage resistance(s)

That sort of thing?

I like the ideas here! Though I do think we're maybe a bit too tied to Smite's framework with our conceptualization of this roster of spells. I get the appeal/logic there, but. I wonder if rendering it closer to... Somewhere between Hunter's Mark and Bane, would be better.

 

[Undrave]

I like the ideas here! Though I do think we're maybe a bit too tied to Smite's framework with our conceptualization of this roster of spells. I get the appeal/logic there, but. I wonder if rendering it closer to... Somewhere between Hunter's Mark and Bane, would be better.

I didn't want them to depend on concentration or a weaker save DC. Rangers are generally good at weapon attacks after all and it's easier to get temporary buffs to your attack than to your save DC so it'd be easier to insure it works. We could always make them a reaction when you hit with a weapon? But people would again expect a save opportunity.

Also, I was thinking about it and maybe Lifestealer Blade could also transform the potential heal into necrotic damage before healing you? That way your allies could use their healing spells to damage the target while sending some heals your way? Could be a fun team dynamic.

 

[Shardstone]

I'm going to draft up some spells later this week and come here with them! I have a LOT of ideas! THis is a very fruitful concept, thank you for it!

 

[Minigiant]

That just doesn't really matter. Most monsters share some kind of design thing, so the monster type only needs to be an inspiration for a general effect instead of a specific effect for a specific monster type.

Actually they don't. That's the problem.

This is why Giant Killer is losing its Large or greater requirement to trigger.

Ranger has a loooong history of having spells and class features triggering off or requiring a target with a certain trait and rangers going 1,2, 3, 5, 10 sessions without the desired targets.

I have used zero regenerating monsters nor trolls in my last 3 sessions because the thematically chosen enemy doesn't regenerate HP nor use giants. Evil elven nobles and villainous shark cultists.

Back in edition when rangers could swap out spells daily, a spell that stops Regeneration could be a nice niche pick after using detective work to discover the enemy or altering to reoccurring enemies. But as semi-permanent class features, feats, and 5e known spell casting, the monster design of 5e monsters are too "freeform" and not standardized to use.

If every dragon had Dragonic Ancestry or every undead had Undead Fortitude or every giant had Giant size maybe triggering out monster traits might work.

If rangers have free spells know or can switch spells daily, then the issue mostly disappears

 

[Rocker26a]

I didn't want them to depend on concentration or a weaker save DC. Rangers are generally good at weapon attacks after all and it's easier to get temporary buffs to your attack than to your save DC so it'd be easier to insure it works. We could always make them a reaction when you hit with a weapon? But people would again expect a save opportunity.

There's definitely some merit to that of course, though that might then limit your ability to affect multiple creatures. If you're fighting 3 Trolls (y'know, like in that one funny book), you ideally want to cut off all their regeneration if you're the guy with the spell specifically for that.

Also, I was thinking about it and maybe Lifestealer Blade could also transform the potential heal into necrotic damage before healing you? That way your allies could use their healing spells to damage the target while sending some heals your way? Could be a fun team dynamic.

Not a bad idea! Sorta like Enervation almost?