Ravnica Table of Contents & More

Thank you.

 

[Jester David]

That's not exactly what has been suggested. What Mearls has said:

"This is 100% official content for Eberron. Since it is an ebook, that also means we can update content with comments based on UA playtests of the races and the artificer. If we do an Eberron print product, we will design it to complement as much as possible what the PDF presents.

"Some things, like the artificer, races, and basic world info, will be picked up for a print book, but we want fans to be happy owning both.

"We'll likely make them two, separate things. Just speaking theoretically - the print book might focus on the Five Nations and adventures there, while this covers Sharn in more detail."

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/1021496102800056321?lang=en

Emphasis added.

So, as we see, they are openly talking about doing a hardback Eberron book, that would repeat race and Class info, and such things as Dragonmarks, but not the Sharn and other campaign material. Enough to feel like a different book, that somebody might want both.

I don't feel they so much "talked" about it, so much as know how a theoretical product would possibly be written/ outlined. Which is pretty easy to consider.
It's not that they're making one, it's that they don't want to completely rule it out and know how it would be done. Just like they're not doing a "book of erotic fantasy" but if asked I bet Mearls would be able to give you an elevator pitch for how that would look in 5e as well.

The key here, that is missing from WGtE, is monsters. Eberron has a significant amount of unique monsters, that would happily fill up a valuable book alongside additional Gazeeter material, ala GGtR. I think the reception of Ravnica will determine if they pursue this path, but given the energy they have put into playtesting every single bit of crunch in the WGtE (to the exclusion of any alternatives for future products), it seems to be their operating plan.

The reception to Ravnica will definitely inform the future. Or rather, what they will do in 2020+. Since after the Planeshift books were well received in 2016, it took until now for a full book to materialise.
They're simply not going to lock in a 2019 Eberron book without knowing how the new campaign setting and PDF did.

Especially since we haven't even seen the artificer yet, and that full new class will need a LOT of playtesting. After all, they dropped the UA that became the Ravnica subclasses in January of 2018, and they'll need more time for a full class and it's subclasses. And an extra two months in the middle of the holiday season probably won't cut it.
Assuming the artificer doesn't end up in a different book entirely.

 

[gyor]

As he can in Shadowrun. There are enough empty spaces in the established SR cities to make things up, not to mention many cities which are not detailed at all. Same goes for corporations etc.
And still, Shadowrun is so much more than just the Big 10. And especially newcomers are much better served with descriptions of how people work and live and how cities etc. look like than just with an description of the Megas.
How does it help a new player to envision the Shadowrun world when he has a list of all Wuxing subsidiaries?

Not that Ravnica will even get into this level of detail. Of the 6 pages of content each guild gets 2-3 will likely be rules. Add an art piece and the actual information you get for the guild will be rather small.
So I really wonder if the content of this book will enable you in any way to paint a detailed and immersive picture of Ravnica.

Shadowrun has had the benifit of decades of source book, this will be Ravnica first.

And Guilds aren't Monolithic organizations. Orzhov has cleric orders, family cartels, banks, likely Paladin Orders, it's own cities, allied businesses, and possibly it's own religion.

It'd be like you took a Shadowrun Megacorp, actually all 10 of them fused together, then fused the Catholic church to it, including Vatican City, then added the World Bank, then added the Mob/Triad/Yukuzuna/Hell's Angels, then added the Canadian Mint, then Burneau of Business, then added in midevil style Aristocractic families, an afterlife, then added in a much less ethical BDSM culture.

 

[gyor]

Emphasis added.


I don't feel they so much "talked" about it, so much as know how a theoretical product would possibly be written/ outlined. Which is pretty easy to consider.
It's not that they're making one, it's that they don't want to completely rule it out and know how it would be done. Just like they're not doing a "book of erotic fantasy" but if asked I bet Mearls would be able to give you an elevator pitch for how that would look in 5e as well.


The reception to Ravnica will definitely inform the future. Or rather, what they will do in 2020+. Since after the Planeshift books were well received in 2016, it took until now for a full book to materialise.
They're simply not going to lock in a 2019 Eberron book without knowing how the new campaign setting and PDF did.

Especially since we haven't even seen the artificer yet, and that full new class will need a LOT of playtesting. After all, they dropped the UA that became the Ravnica subclasses in January of 2018, and they'll need more time for a full class and it's subclasses. And an extra two months in the middle of the holiday season probably won't cut it.
Assuming the artificer doesn't end up in a different book entirely.

From what I've seen Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica appears to be selling fairly well so far and it's only in preorder.

on Amazon it's number 12 right now, and in Canada it's number 3. I guess Ravnica appeals to our Canadian sensibilities.

 

[Parmandur]

Emphasis added.


I don't feel they so much "talked" about it, so much as know how a theoretical product would possibly be written/ outlined. Which is pretty easy to consider.
It's not that they're making one, it's that they don't want to completely rule it out and know how it would be done. Just like they're not doing a "book of erotic fantasy" but if asked I bet Mearls would be able to give you an elevator pitch for how that would look in 5e as well.


The reception to Ravnica will definitely inform the future. Or rather, what they will do in 2020+. Since after the Planeshift books were well received in 2016, it took until now for a full book to materialise.
They're simply not going to lock in a 2019 Eberron book without knowing how the new campaign setting and PDF did.

Especially since we haven't even seen the artificer yet, and that full new class will need a LOT of playtesting. After all, they dropped the UA that became the Ravnica subclasses in January of 2018, and they'll need more time for a full class and it's subclasses. And an extra two months in the middle of the holiday season probably won't cut it.
Assuming the artificer doesn't end up in a different book entirely.

True, nothing is set in stone, nor have they promised anything. However, they have spent this entire year, after Ravnica testing, playtesting Eberron material. The Artificer will be in UA in the next couple of months, Mearls suggested November most recently but made no promises. Keep in mind that they have been playtesting it internally, which is all that is needed for balance. If it appeals to people, they would have the year to nail it down in every detail after having worked on it for all of this year already. That's as much playtesting as anything in the game ever got.

 

[Jester David]

From what I've seen Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica appears to be selling fairly well so far and it's only in preorder.

on Amazon it's number 12 right now, and in Canada it's number 3. I guess Ravnica appeals to our Canadian sensibilities.

Canada is a big RPG market. D&D sells well here and gamers are more common. Something about long winters and needing to find indoor hobbies...

Ravnica is doing okay, but they didn't know that going in. And won't be able to tell if it continues to sell well or has a small spike as a few fans buy it and then sales drop.

Also... that's #12 in D&D. Which isn't *that* impressive given that makes it sixth best setting of the five official D&D books released this year. No, that's not a typo as the licensed Art & Arcana is #2 and #5.
GGtR is currently #1,490 on the books chart and hasn't cracked the top 100, while Dragon Heist is #449 in books a month after release and hit #18, while Tome of Foes is still #667 in books after being release over five months ago with a highest rank of #3.

Maybe it will have a surge of sales in the next month. Or positive word of mouth will give it additional life. But now it's releasing the same day as Dungeon of the Mad Mage, so there's suddenly competition as people have to decide if they can afford both and which product they want more...

True, nothing is set in stone, nor have they promised anything. However, they have spent this entire year, after Ravnica testing, playtesting Eberron material. The Artificer will be in UA in the next couple of months, Mearls suggested November most recently but made no promises. Keep in mind that they have been playtesting it internally, which is all that is needed for balance. If it appeals to people, they would have the year to nail it down in every detail after having worked on it for all of this year already. That's as much playtesting as anything in the game ever got.

Internal playtesting is important for balance, but the public stuff is important for mass feedback on tone, effectiveness, etc. After all, they've done TWO other versions of the artificer already. They're not going to double down on their third version being beloved without seeing any feedback; if people hate it, it'd be too late to rework it and balance it for a November release.

Plus, a subclass is fairly easy to balance as it only has three or four moving parts that can interact with the game. A class is much, much harder to balance as you need to test it at multiple levels and measure its effects with multiclassing while ALSO testing it's various subclasses. That just *might* take longer than an extra two months.

 

[Parmandur]

Canada is a big RPG market. D&D sells well here and gamers are more common. Something about long winters and needing to find indoor hobbies...

Ravnica is doing okay, but they didn't know that going in. And won't be able to tell if it continues to sell well or has a small spike as a few fans buy it and then sales drop.

Also... that's #12 in D&D. Which isn't *that* impressive given that makes it sixth best setting of the five official D&D books released this year. No, that's not a typo as the licensed Art & Arcana is #2 and #5.
GGtR is currently #1,490 on the books chart and hasn't cracked the top 100, while Dragon Heist is #449 in books a month after release and hit #18, while Tome of Foes is still #667 in books after being release over five months ago with a highest rank of #3.

Maybe it will have a surge of sales in the next month. Or positive word of mouth will give it additional life. But now it's releasing the same day as Dungeon of the Mad Mage, so there's suddenly competition as people have to decide if they can afford both and which product they want more...


Internal playtesting is important for balance, but the public stuff is important for mass feedback on tone, effectiveness, etc. After all, they've done TWO other versions of the artificer already. They're not going to double down on their third version being beloved without seeing any feedback; if people hate it, it'd be too late to rework it and balance it for a November release.

Plus, a subclass is fairly easy to balance as it only has three or four moving parts that can interact with the game. A class is much, much harder to balance as you need to test it at multiple levels and measure its effects with multiclassing while ALSO testing it's various subclasses. That just *might* take longer than an extra two months.

They have reiterated on this Class publicly since January 2017. If the next version gets the thumbs up, it could be finalized by about September of next year for publication in November, which means the Artificer would have been in public playtest longer than every other official Class in 5E was.

I'm not saying they definitely will, but it is pretty clear that they are thinking about it, and working towards it.

 

[gyor]

Canada is a big RPG market. D&D sells well here and gamers are more common. Something about long winters and needing to find indoor hobbies...

Ravnica is doing okay, but they didn't know that going in. And won't be able to tell if it continues to sell well or has a small spike as a few fans buy it and then sales drop.

Also... that's #12 in D&D. Which isn't *that* impressive given that makes it sixth best setting of the five official D&D books released this year. No, that's not a typo as the licensed Art & Arcana is #2 and #5.
GGtR is currently #1,490 on the books chart and hasn't cracked the top 100, while Dragon Heist is #449 in books a month after release and hit #18, while Tome of Foes is still #667 in books after being release over five months ago with a highest rank of #3.

Maybe it will have a surge of sales in the next month. Or positive word of mouth will give it additional life. But now it's releasing the same day as Dungeon of the Mad Mage, so there's suddenly competition as people have to decide if they can afford both and which product they want more...


Internal playtesting is important for balance, but the public stuff is important for mass feedback on tone, effectiveness, etc. After all, they've done TWO other versions of the artificer already. They're not going to double down on their third version being beloved without seeing any feedback; if people hate it, it'd be too late to rework it and balance it for a November release.

Plus, a subclass is fairly easy to balance as it only has three or four moving parts that can interact with the game. A class is much, much harder to balance as you need to test it at multiple levels and measure its effects with multiclassing while ALSO testing it's various subclasses. That just *might* take longer than an extra two months.

I don't think they expect it to do as well as stuff for the Forgotten Realms. It just has to do well enough to make an acceptable profit. Also remember compared to FR, Ravnica is an unknown setting to many D&D fans.

 

[Jester David]

They have reiterated on this Class publicly since January 2017. If the next version gets the thumbs up, it could be finalized by about September of next year for publication in November, which means the Artificer would have been in public playtest longer than every other official Class in 5E was.

I'm not saying they definitely will, but it is pretty clear that they are thinking about it, and working towards it.

Fine. Whatever. I give up.
Ravnica is awesome. Eberron is totally coming it 2019. And we'll have an artificer in a hardcover book that comes complete with a coupon for a unicorn that gives blowjobs and craps hundred dollar bills.
I no longer care. I simply cannot debate with you Pollyanna attitude.

 

[Parmandur]

Redacted

 

[cbwjm]

I thought the eberron book was only going to be POD? At any rate, I'd expect to see it show up in the PDF in the next few months.