D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Zardnaar]

Also nine tenths of the population has already died from diseases like swine flu (which spread from pigs released into Florida all the way across the country), so all the power structures were a mess. Folks who wanted more power took advantage of the Spanish invasion to take down those in charge.

The 90% is a bit misqouted.

Varied by region and mist died after the Spanish conquest.

Think 90% was more applicable to North America.

It's not like the Spanish turned up, 90% conveniently died and they ate what was left.

It did throw the social structure of the Incas into chaos though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, then the Spanish killed them too.

This isn't the proof of the goodness of Conquistadors

Tlaxcala iirc got better treatment than the rest. Which is why they aided the Spanish since they were used as human sacrifices

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It's not like the Spanish turned up, 90% conveniently died and they ate what was left.

Do you have a source on that? Because that's almost exactly what happened for much of the native populations.

Source: How smallpox devastated the Aztecs – and helped Spain conquer an American civilization 500 years ago

 

[BookTenTiger]

The 90% is a bit misqouted.

Varied by region and mist died after the Spanish conquest.

Think 90% was more applicable to North America.

It's not like the Spanish turned up, 90% conveniently died and they ate what was left.

It did throw the social structure of the Incas into chaos though.

I got my information from the book 1491. What is your source for the exaggeration?

 

[Zardnaar]

Do you have a source on that? Because that's almost exactly what happened for much of the native populations.

Source: How smallpox devastated the Aztecs – and helped Spain conquer an American civilization 500 years ago

That article quoted 40%.

The diseases were really bad during the battle of the city.

Cf with the Incas who were already fight a smallpox induced civil war.

Not claiming the disease had no effect. The death toll was horrific post conquest that's when most died.
Even if the Spanish stayed away after contact the diseases would have arrived anyway with similar effect. Had they waited 50 years or more I'm guessing Mexico and Peru would have resembled the collapse in NA more.

Disease definitely had an impact but not 90% at time of conquest.

And in the Incas case the arrival of disease predated the Spanish bit different with Aztecs.

If you're gonna run an empire the Inca example is a better way if doing it than Aztec which in some ways resembles Assyria. Aztec empire was already unstable due to their regime, Inca unstable due to disease but it also probably expanded to quickly relative to when the Spanish turned up.

 

[Krachek]

DnD settings are full of reference to historical empire and kingdom. Do they need to be accurate? do they need to make education on true history? DnD settings are there for entertainment. And entertainment products are solely evaluated on cultural and social belief at the time they are produced.

So the Gaz10 setting was printable 30 years ago, and today it is racism and bad taste mockery.

So what’s next?
Intent legal or criminal charges?
Ask for atonement by Wotc?
Ask to remove access to the setting and burn any remaining copies?
Start again to the next offensive setting?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

That article quoted 40%.

40% within one year. Not overall. It then went on to note that in many of the native populations, 90% of them died from the many diseases introduced by the conquistadors.

 

[Zardnaar]

40% within one year. Not overall. It then went on to note that in many of the native populations, 90% of them died from the many diseases introduced by the conquistadors.

They did but that process took a while that's all I'm saying over several years/decades.

The sources are biased and a few hundred conquistadors fighting tens of thousands is exaggerated.

Small pox and flipping loyalties were bigger reasons IMHO. More died post conquest to the extent Tlaxcala was a lot smaller a few decades post conquest.

 

[J.Quondam]

So what’s next?
Intent legal or criminal charges?
Ask for atonement by Wotc?
Ask to remove access to the setting and burn any remaining copies?
Start again to the next offensive setting?

Q: Who exactly is suggesting any of this? Or is this just more nonsensical hyperventilating because someone has pointed out some obvious distasteful elements of a decades-old product that virtually no one even plays anymore?

A: No one is suggesting burning or censoring anything. So stop exaggerating how awful it is that some people find it instructive to examine old publications through a critical lens. Doing so in no way hurts the hobby, and it in no way hurts even the thinnest-skinned whiners in the hobby.

 

[BookTenTiger]

They did but that process took a while that's all I'm saying over several years/decades.

The sources are biased and a few hundred conquistadors fighting tens of thousands is exaggerated.

Small pox and flipping loyalties were bigger reasons IMHO. More died post conquest to the extent Tlaxcala was a lot smaller a few decades post conquest.

Yes, exactly, by the time Cortes arrived he essentially landed in a post-apocalyptic setting. Diseases arrived well before he did.

I don't understand what your argument here is.